Offers over?

[NotMyCircusMonkeys]

I'm a first time buyer with a maximum budget of £195k-£197.5k.

I've seen three properties I like advertised, two at "offers over £200k" and one at £210k. They've all been online for 2-3 weeks.

I'm just wondering what would be a reasonable offer? Is "offers over" normally really strict, with no exceptions, or would it be worth offering £195k on either of the two listed at £200k? Also, would I have any chance at all of getting the £210k house for around the £195k mark?

I'd just like to try and work out really how much sellers generally accept under the asking price (I appreciate it will vary depending on circumstances!) so that I don't waste anyone's time.

I realise for lots of sellers it's a huge inconvenience preparing a house for viewings but what's the alternative? Maybe buyers should be prepared to handover hundreds of thousands of pounds with just a virtual tour perhaps?
I'm not saying people have to part with money withour viewing. What is it with stupid suggestions like 'OIEO is not being allowed to view a property without agreeing to buy it' / 'OIEO is telling people they shouldn't come for a viewing'??

If my house is within someone's budget then by all means come and view. You may be willing to pay that price. You may not be. I don't mind. We all have different criteria for a house. I know we looked at some houses at the top of our budget but then on reflection we were paying a premium for some features we didn't value as much so took a hit on a couple of features we did want because on balance the house we ended up buying was best overall. That's house buying.

What I've said multiple times (which isn't a difficult concept) is that:

1. People are free to look and choose whether to buy for whatever reason they like.
2. I don't want to spend ages prepping my house for time waster buyers who've decide that although my property is priced 20 grand outside their budget, they'll come and have a nosy in case they feel like putting a lowball offer in.

I wouldn't got and look round a £380,000 house if my budget is £350,000 on the grounds i might like the house and it's up to me to decide how much I am willing to pay. It's arrogant and wastes everyone's time.

The long and the short of it is that 'offers over' can kill interest from prospective buyers, like me. That might work in a busy market, but in a weak market it means a property can sit on the market without viewings and unsold (which might be good for a seller because they don't have the inconvenience of tidying up for viewings).

Also, the sophisticated, higher end agents tend not to use 'offer over', OIRO etc. They just give the price. It is the lower end, unsophisticated agents who usually add these embellishments. I don't know why that is. Maybe the lower end agents think it is clever marketing, and the higher end agents think it is just flummery liked by lower end agents.

We bought in 2016 and initially offered £70k less than the offers over price. A couple of offers later and a bit of playing the waiting game. Our final offer, which they accepted, was £25k less. I always see the price as a starting point for negotiations not a set price with no movement.

AnalyticalChick
Then either the agents haven't priced it properly or that figure is the minimum the seller can sell for without making a loss.

We had an offer rejected on an unrealistically priced house which had been on almost a year.(just a high asking price, no OIEO). We looked at what it sold for last, accounted for inflation and made another offer. It was accepted.
It would have been easier all round if they'd just said OIEO £X in my opinion rather than price it high.

It relies on having good estate agents though who know their stuff and don't flatter clients with unrealistically high valuations.

As the responses here show it seems to vary from a sensible way of indicating that the house is accurately priced so no offers under accepted, to a meaningless way of trying to prevent offers under the perceived value bypassing market forces. In the case of your potential properties, it could be either, unfortunately difficult to tell.

The house we bought was initially on for 'offers over' at exactly our top budget. It wasn't worth that so we bypassed the house. I noticed weeks later the 'offers over' wording had been removed from the listing, so we viewed, offered and eventually got it for £15k under asking which was more like what it was worth.

I think in our case they'd put 'offers over' on as it was a sought after Street/area where houses typically went for more than their 'offers over' asking price. But they'd not taken in to account that this was the only house in the street without an extension/loft conversion and driveway. Also out was on an awkward plot with a smaller garden. But I think they just saw the average price on the road and thought they'd get that.

wouldn't got and look round a £380,000 house if my budget is £350,000 on the grounds i might like the house and it's up to me to decide how much I am willing to pay. It's arrogant and wastes everyone's time.

But that’s how the market works. Like it or not, the asking price, no matter what fanciful embellishments, is always going to be considered a starting point, and it’s up to the potential buyer how much they’re willing to pay. I’m sure it’s very frustrating for sellers who have gotten used to high HPI that even though they’re the one who owns the house, they don’t actually get to call all the shots, at least if they want to sell. Speaking of arrogance.

As the responses here show it seems to vary from a sensible way of indicating that the house is accurately priced so no offers under accepted, to a meaningless way of trying to prevent offers under the perceived value bypassing market forces. In the case of your potential properties, it could be either, unfortunately difficult to tell.

It sounds like the unrealistic group is ruining it for the realistic group because the realistic group is getting tainted with the sins of the unrealistic group. It is not a good marketing strategy imho, if it leads to the suspicion that the seller is not only unrealistic, but also stubborn.

I’m sure it’s very frustrating for sellers who have gotten used to high HPI that even though they’re the one who owns the house, they don’t actually get to call all the shots, at least if they want to sell. Speaking of arrogance.

The transition from a buyers' market to a sellers' market will always be resented by sellers, who will fight tooth and nail to try to stop the pendulum from swinging. Unfortunately for sellers, these turns in the market cycle are out of their control (which they probably find even more frustrating because they have become so accustomed to being in control during the sellers' market).

In Scotland it’s the standard for virtually all properties to be marketed as “offers over”. Usually they go for a very large amount over. In Edinburgh it’s currently about £40,000 to £50,000 over the asking price for a 2 bed flat.

You can’t make a low offer and then negotiate upwards either - it’s a sealed bids system, and all the bids are opened together on the day of the closing date.

Babdoc It sounds easier if 'offers over' is the prevailing convention, unlike in England where it is not clear why 'offers over' is being used. What happens in Scotland in a weak market, if the buyer gets no offers by the closing date? Do they just repeat the process again and again, and move the (fixed) closing date into the future?

Like it or not, the asking price, no matter what fanciful embellishments, is always going to be considered a starting point, and it’s up to the potential buyer how much they’re willing to pay. I’m sure it’s very frustrating for sellers who have gotten used to high HPI that even though they’re the one who owns the house, they don’t actually get to call all the shots, at least if they want to sell. Speaking of arrogance.

It's not arrogant to expect people to look at properties within their budget.

It's a buyers market (we moved reasonably recently) but that doesn't mean people can be cheeky fuckers on the grounds of I am a buyer.
Anyone who's done a bit of research into an area will spot trends and what properties are going for, will see what's sold recently and for how much. So don't go and look for a house way out of budget.

There was a bit of negotiation when we sold/bought last time but what was nice was that everyone in our chain were sensible, reasonable people who made fair offers for the market. Interestingly, we had people make shockingly low ball offers (and turned them away with a 'don't pass any more offers from them note) and the people we bought off had a similar problem. Some people are just cheeky. They think the world should be grateful that they're even considering a viewing regardless of whether they can afford a reasonable offer.

It's not arrogant to expect people to look at properties within their budget.

Kirsty and Phil would disagree with you. They are always getting people to view properties that are over budget. When Richard Branson bought Nekker Island in the Caribbean, it was on sale for $6 million. He initially offered $100,000, but then settled on a price of $180,000, which pushed his budget to its limits at the time. By your reckoning, he should not have been allowed to view the island at all.

I am currently in the process of buying a one-bed flat for 10k less than the stated 'offers over' price, so sellers aren't always strict about it.

As someone else said, the properties will quite often have been reduced from their initial 'offers over' price anyway, so it's quite meaningless.

If it's been on for a little while, you may as well try your luck. They can only say no.

AnalyticalChick my lack of caring about whether my offer would be rejected saved us £10,000.

Go for it! We've been in our house for a year. It was advertised as offers over £300k. Very top end of our budget. It had been on the market 8 months. We've bought and sold a few properties now. I always start with a low offer and work from there. If the seller doesn't like it fine, that's their decision. I've got nothing to be embarrassed about, I'm a confident buyer out for a good deal, why would I not push my luck?

On this house we offered a very cheeky £275k. It was rejected. Advised they were looking for at least £295k. We left it a few days, then went back and offered £285k, rejected but they countered our offer and said they'd accept £290k. For me that's a result! I could have let the 'offers over' put us off, I could have offered £300k or over, but why not try...saved us £10k at least for the sake of a few days bartering and we got a lovely home. Worth every bit of time and effort.

Don't be put off. All sellers will be looking for something different, until you go and view you won't know whether you like the house or what it's worth to you, and equally you won't know really what the seller is hoping for or their circumstances.

MaisyPops It's a buyers market (we moved reasonably recently) but that doesn't mean people can be cheeky fuckers on the grounds of I am a buyer.

Yes it does! People can offer what they like. Doesn’t matter what the house next door sold for, they can still offer half. Doesn’t matter whether they would get a mortgage offer for the asking price, they can offer what they can afford.

You can’t control them.

that doesn't mean people can be cheeky fuckers on the grounds of I am a buyer.

Don't you think it is hypocritical of sellers that they feel they should be free to ask whatever cheeky asking price they want, on the grounds of 'I am a seller, so I can ask whatever I want'?

I wouldn't want the the embarrassment of having an offer under rejected.
Embarrassed indeed! One wonders would a seller with such views be as suitably embarrassed when they have to drop their asking price due to lack of offers?
Op offer what you feel the property is worth and you can afford. Within your budget you need to allow for the additional fees along with the price of the sale.

It’s all very well politely negotiating for properties without a drop of tea spilled in outrage at the utter gall of some people, but the market is so chock full of unrealistic expectations (but this is what I need!, never mind what it’s really worth) of sellers engagé dans cheeky fuckery that tender feelings are bound to be bruised.

“Offers over” is just a wanky way of saying “I might get someone who offers more than I think I’ll get” or “I don’t want them to start thinking low”. The majority of properties go for under the asking price, used to be 10%, these days it’s anyone’s guess.

One wonders would a seller with such views be as suitably embarrassed when they have to drop their asking price due to lack of offers?

I agree, it is embarrassing for an 'offers over' seller to drop their price. It proves how greedy and cheeky they are, which probably does not encourage trust from prospective buyers.

Don't you think it is hypocritical of sellers that they feel they should be free to ask whatever cheeky asking price they want, on the grounds of 'I am a seller, so I can ask whatever I want'?
I think sellers should price their houses realistically and that buyers should do their research and not be cheeky fuckers.

There was a house on the market when we were looking that was monumentally overpriced (for a number of reasons) and had been on and off the market for 18 months. We didn't go to look at it. It was vastly overpriced and at the top of our budget so it was pointless looking. They didn't sell. That's their problem. It's their house and they decide what they are willing to sell for. If a seller chooses to stick a ridiculous OIEO price then they shouldn't be surpriaed if there is less interest.

If it's an 'asking price' then there's a bit more flexibility because that's their ballpark and they aren't saying OIEO but again, it's down to the seller to take a realistic price and not be courted by estate agents who flatter and do ridiculous valuations.

I'd say there's more grounds to negotiate with an asking price than an 'offers over' listing.

E.g. budget £190,000 with the potential to push to 195,000 then an asking price house of £200,000 would be reasonable to look at.

Budget of £190,000 max then looking at a house saying OIEO £210,000 and doing a viewing when you're not in a position to go forward is being a cheeky fucker.

When buying and selling you want ideally to be working with a buyer/seller who is reasonable and will make the process easy. If someone's a cheeky fucker early on then it makes.me worry thatthey'll be the type of mess on & try to renegotiate later.

@MaisyPops
You are assuming the property market never changes. Sellers would naturally want a sellers' market to be permanent, but markets can change from week to week. What was a realistic asking price last month, may be hopelessly unrealistic this month..

And it’s not just the market that changes. Years ago I bought a house that was going to be repossessed because the seller couldn’t pay the mortgage but didn’t put it on the market. I was in the right place at the right time and got a bargain. Seller got more than he would have got if repossessed but less than he would have got if he hadn’t stuck his head in the sand for months.

The price I paid would have lowered the whole street if people relied on net house prices or similar for property prices.