Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Property/DIY

Join our Property forum for renovation, DIY, and house selling advice.

Original poster

Landlords - can letting agents issue a new tenancy agreement to the tenant without your knowledge or permission?

243 replies

DancingOnTheTable · 14/06/2017 13:09

I'll try to keep this a simple as possible.

I own a house that is very far away (other end of the country, in England) we specifically wanted a long term tenant that would look after the house well so we were very involved with the process of selecting a tenant but left all the formalities to the estate agents as they would be handling the day to say running or the letting.

It's been several years and we have found out completely by accident that the tenant is no longer in the situation she was in before, she has moved a partner in and had another child, she has several dogs and cats and is running a business out of the house.
Some of it I don't mind about, but others I'm less happy about.

I contacted the EA to see if they knew about any of it and they confirmed that they did, and that they had given the tenant a new tenancy agreement which names her partner as a joint tenant and also mentions her being allowed the pets and to run her business in the house, the tenancy is also for substantially longer than the original one (which was initially supposed to with be renewed annually or go onto a rolling monthly contract)

I'm very unhappy. The EA have said they think I'm over reacting.

Can they really issue a new tenancy agreement, particularly to a new person with clauses that I did not approve?

The EA have said that I basically have to like it or lump it because I can't ask the tenant to leave until the TA is up.

OP posts:
SnowBallsAreHere · 04/09/2017 15:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

opinionatedfreak · 04/09/2017 17:08

I'm Scottish. I used to be a landlord there.

The difference down here is stark.

My sister is buying an ex rental property to live in. There is no gas or electrical safety certificate. LL and her agents are refusing to do one as she is about to sell. Completely ignoring the fact the property has been tenanted for years.

Under the Scottish scheme there is redress for omissions like this. Down here it is really hard to get it sorted as a tenant. Given that generation rent is alive and well they at lease need a six provisions to ensure their properties are safe!

johnd2 · 04/09/2017 21:00

"My sister is buying an ex rental property to live in. There is no gas or electrical safety certificate. LL and her agents are refusing to do one as she is about to sell. Completely ignoring the fact the property has been tenanted for years."
Off topic, but there's no special conditions for buying an ex rental property. The only condition is an epc assuming it's been marketed for sale.
Any extra checks or certificates are down to negotiation between the parties.
If I was selling a house with a terrible electrical installation condition report I'd certainly think twice about offering it up to any potential buyer.

opinionatedfreak · 05/09/2017 12:01

You miss my point.

LL has been letting property for years without the required safety checks - gas is mandatory and, I think but may be wrong, electrical good practice.

The tenants have been living for years without the required safety checks.

In Scotland as a LL if you omit safety checks there are sanctions - the ultimate one is loss of the ability to be rent residential property out. In England there are no equivalent protections for tenants.

MrsSchadenfreude · 05/09/2017 18:05

Any news OP?

CotswoldStrife · 05/09/2017 19:09

I somehow missed all these updates

ScissorBow · 05/09/2017 21:50

I can understand you feeling for her but there will be other tenants out there who won't be so naive and cause you this sort of grief. I'm hoping you now have an empty house and a letter winging its way to the EA for damages?

Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 06/09/2017 19:57

Sorry for the delay, it's been a busy week.

So I told the solicitor I definitely want her out, he called her and told her, she was understandably upset and asked to speak to me, I reluctantly agreed, she was very upset but she was mainly just very apologetic and said she could completely see it from my point of view and she said she wasn't going to try to convince me to change my mind she just wanted me know know she was sorry.
She said she will move out asap, she's going to go and stay with her mum, she asked for two weeks to get everything sorted out and to move out which I agreed to.

It was really hard talking to her, I feel awful but I still don't believe she was completely unaware.

We told her not bother paying any rent, that she can keep it and put it towards moving costs and she agreed to sign an agreement to move out by the 14th, which she has done.

So it's been a lot less dramatic than I thought it would be.
Once she has moved out we will deal with the EA.

OP posts:
specialsubject · 06/09/2017 20:01

As an aside , England has big penalties and possible criminal action for landlords not meeting gas safe regs.

Property buyers do their own research and tests.

OVienna · 07/09/2017 07:01

Interesting change of tune for someone who told you 'they're not going anywhere' until 2025 and put the phone on you a few weeks ago. I suspect she realises the EA is potentially in hot water and worries she could be dragged in.

wowfudge · 07/09/2017 07:45

The penny has finally dropped. The agent has over egged the pudding with the length of the new 'tenancy' to the extent no reasonable LL would have agreed to it. As a nosey person, I would love to know exactly what the agent's connection is with the tenant's partner. It will be interesting if she asks for a reference...

CotswoldStrife · 07/09/2017 10:39

Well I can understand her being upset at realising she does have to leave but I am also suspicious about her not knowing. I think she realises that she is in big trouble when you take this further!

amaliaa · 07/09/2017 11:23

Very kind of you to tell her not to bother paying the last 2 weeks rent.

I guess she eventually got advice from someone other than the EA, who gave her the correct information. I'm sure you are right that she could not have been completely naive and unaware, but she probably chose to believe the EA because it suited her.

Needmoresleep · 07/09/2017 11:42

Well done. This is a serious result. As a landlord I am surprised how often the only way to get results is to stick doggedly to a reasonable position, even if initially the problem seems insoluble. People think there are easy returns in buy-to-let but fail to recognise how much stress, hard work and knowledge/skill can be involved. I also hate when someone will suggest to me that it is easy. Simply delegate to an Agent, when my experience is that Agents interests and mine often don't align.

Letting her off the two weeks rent was a good idea. It is always best to depart on as good terms as possible. I might have made the two weeks conditional on no leaving party etc, but I assume that was implicit.

Don't worry. She knew you had previously objected to animals etc, so at best by going to the agent she was acting like a child who asks one parent, and when refused, the other. Keeping her on would have complicated any later attempt at eviction, should she/her partner have proved to be manipulative not naive, or any action against the agent.

I hope you are getting a good chunk of the deposit to help get the property back into a lettable condition.

And again well done. I hope you really get the agent. This sounds like fraud, and presumably something they may have done, or be thinking of doing, to others.

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 07/09/2017 13:19

Well done OP. You should be proud of yourself and this result and don't feel guilty. This is not your fault. I'm glad you and the tenant can now resolve this as amicably as possible and I think you're very kind to let her off the last bit of rent. I desperately hope however, that the estate agents get their arses handed to them on a plate and I look forward to hearing that update ;)

tribpot · 08/09/2017 17:53

Well, roll on the 14th. I hope she really will move out then. It's a shame she let things reach this point through being too lazy to take decent advice.

Jux · 08/09/2017 23:33

The EA created this situation and I really hope they get it in the neck for it. 2025, ridiculous.

Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 13/09/2017 06:39

Well the tenant is gone, she moved out yesterday.

The locks are being changed today and I'm going down at the weekend to check the house.

OP posts:
MaitlandGirl · 13/09/2017 06:41

That's great news - hopefully there's not too much damage or stuff to put right.

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 13/09/2017 06:48

Fabulous. Well done OP. Fingers crossed the house is ok.

JediStoleMyBike · 13/09/2017 07:32

Good luck for the house check. Hoping you will be pleasantly surprised by condition.

wowfudge · 13/09/2017 09:04

That's good news for you OP. Fingers crossed as to the condition of the place.

MoreProseccoNow · 13/09/2017 09:23

That's great news.

Have you heard anything from the letting agents?

They must be shitting themselves.

RedBlu · 13/09/2017 09:41

Just read this all - shocking

OVienna · 13/09/2017 10:14

Well done, Dancing. I am so glad you got this result.

Are you taking this forward with the EA or putting it behind you? I guess if they hold the deposit you need to deal with them regardless. I'm not suggesting for a moment you SHOULD put it behind you, it's more a case of whether you have the energy to do anything further now that you have the property back.