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Original poster

Landlords - can letting agents issue a new tenancy agreement to the tenant without your knowledge or permission?

243 replies

DancingOnTheTable · 14/06/2017 13:09

I'll try to keep this a simple as possible.

I own a house that is very far away (other end of the country, in England) we specifically wanted a long term tenant that would look after the house well so we were very involved with the process of selecting a tenant but left all the formalities to the estate agents as they would be handling the day to say running or the letting.

It's been several years and we have found out completely by accident that the tenant is no longer in the situation she was in before, she has moved a partner in and had another child, she has several dogs and cats and is running a business out of the house.
Some of it I don't mind about, but others I'm less happy about.

I contacted the EA to see if they knew about any of it and they confirmed that they did, and that they had given the tenant a new tenancy agreement which names her partner as a joint tenant and also mentions her being allowed the pets and to run her business in the house, the tenancy is also for substantially longer than the original one (which was initially supposed to with be renewed annually or go onto a rolling monthly contract)

I'm very unhappy. The EA have said they think I'm over reacting.

Can they really issue a new tenancy agreement, particularly to a new person with clauses that I did not approve?

The EA have said that I basically have to like it or lump it because I can't ask the tenant to leave until the TA is up.

OP posts:
OVienna · 04/08/2017 12:45

I mean - she's going to be set straight as to who her landlord is- you. Curious the EA isn't replying at all. If it gets to court I wonder how that will be perceived?

Badweekjustgotworse · 04/08/2017 13:04

dancing she sounds awful. Is she intending to leave by the date you've given her, do you know?
Have you had any discussions with your solicitor about trying to retrieve the costs for putting the property back to rights from the EA if the tennant tries to evade them? I'm not sure how sound a legal footing pud be on but it would seem to me as a lay person that since the EA authorised the changes with out notification to you or your permission thy should be held liable as well as her (possibly even more so since I guess she could argue they gave her permission and she had no reason to doubt it?)

I hope you're looking after yourself and my too stressed by the whole debacle, it must be very wearing to have the constant backdrop of the worry about it all.

ajandjjmum · 04/08/2017 13:10

What a nightmare!

Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 06/08/2017 08:22

I hope she will leave but I'm not going to hold my breath.

The solicitor told me he has worked on many of these type of cases in this area and as there are no rent arrears and she Does not have financial difficulties he can't see it taking more than another month to get her out.
The accelerated possession order takes two weeks and he is confident the judge would issue the standard two week order so hopefully she'll be out by 01/10.

The solicitor wrote back to her reminding her that the new tenancy agreement is not valid and legally she is still on the old tenancy agreement and that does not give her permission to do anything to the house, have pets or run a business from the house.

The solicitor thinks it's unlikely she will fix anything and has said there's no point in pursuing her for it unless we can prove she and the EA colluded together on it.
He has recommended we concentrate on getting her out of the house asap and then go after the EA for breach of contract and all costs.

OP posts:
AdalindSchade · 06/08/2017 08:25

Your solicitor thinks she will be out within a month of the expiry of the section 21? That sounds highly unlikely!

Badweekjustgotworse · 06/08/2017 09:32

dancing glad your solicitor is on the ball, sounds like they know what the score is. Also really glad to hear that you'll be pursuing the EA for costs once she's out, I still can't believe what arserioles they've been from start to finish, they deserve everything they get if they end up with a large bill.
Good luck for the end of her tenancy!

MoreProseccoNow · 28/08/2017 22:39

How are things going, OP? Any signs of tenant leaving at the end of the month?

fucksakefay · 28/08/2017 22:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bluebell34567 · 28/08/2017 23:06

I think the EA is getting money from tenant because of all the favours they did for them, like not increasing the rent, letting it for longer term, allowing pets and running business.

Jux · 29/08/2017 00:14

Blimey, how awful! You seem to have a good solicitor, though.

She sounds bonkers and the EA are appalling. I hope you massidamages out of them.

MrsSchadenfreude · 29/08/2017 00:35

Oh God, this is the stuff of nightmares! Good luck, hope it all works out.

fucksakefay · 29/08/2017 08:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thatstoast · 29/08/2017 08:58

Just found this and was Shock at the 10 year tenancy. Good luck OP, it sounds like it's going to be a long process.

Unicornsandrainbows3 · 29/08/2017 09:17

Oh OP, I'm horrified for you. What appalling behaviour from both EA and Tenant! I really do hope it's sorted sooner rather than later, what a nightmare.

ThatIsNachoCheese · 30/08/2017 07:11

Bloody hell! So sorry you're having to cope with all this op, you appear to be dealing with some amazingly cheeky fuckers...

MoreProseccoNow · 31/08/2017 18:30

Good luck for tomorrow; I hope the tenants leave quietly.

Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 31/08/2017 18:39

Hi all, sorry I haven't been back to update you, It's been a hectic month.

So where were we last time I updated.......
My solicitor wrote to the tenant and told her that as she had been issued a section 21 she was going to be leaving the property whether voluntarily at the end of the section 21 period or by an eviction.
Basically they went back and forth for quite awhile in emails and there was a few phone calls, the short version of it is that the tenant was convinced that the section 21 didn't mean anything, the estate agents have told the tenant that all she needs to do is wait until she gets a court date, take her tenancy agreement and show it to them and she will be told that she can stay because she has a valid tenancy agreement, my solicitor explained to her that she does have a valid tenancy agreement but that tenancy agreement is the original agreement and it's now month by month ast and we are free to issue her with a section 21 and ask her to leave with the standard notice at any point.
She told him that she was told that there was a 0% chance she could be made to leave the house and this was all just a formality.
t took a long time and the solicitor said that he had to tell her the entire thing for times before she seem to understand and accept the situation as it really is.
He says he's not 100% convinced that she doesn't have some knowledge of what the EA has been up to but he said that he is 70% sure that she's not been in on it based on her reaction and how upset she was when the reality of her situation became clear to her.

She then contacted the EA, but they told her that she's been lied to again, that we are trying to con her and manipulate her and that they are 100% certain that she does not have to leave the house and that she should ignore all further contact from me and solicitor.

She forwarded all emails between herself and the ETA to my solicitor and he said it all looks legitimate, so it's more likely that she is just incredibly naive.

The solicitor did note that she hinted to her partner had a connection to somebody at the estate agents as she said several times that she didn't think the EA would mislead her partner as they've "known each other for long time", The solicitor has this written in an email and he says that this is quite possibly a very good piece of ammunition that we will be able to use later.

So as it stands the tenant has said there is no way she can leave at the moment and she doesn't want to leave what she's asked for is another chance which honestly I'm not entirely sure I'm prepared to give her purely because of the way she has behaved, I do really feel for her, if she's telling the truth, but being naive is not a very good excuse and i'm still very unhappy with what she has done to the house.

the solicitor spoke to her on Monday, she was pretty desperate to stay but has said she will accept it if i as not willing to give her a chance.
he is calling in the morning to see what I want to do.
I'm still sure I want her to go though.

OP posts:
Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 31/08/2017 18:45

Has the solicitor said there is any right of action against the estate agent?

Yes he is currently preparing documents and evidence so that we will be ready to go after the EA for substantial damages after the tenant is out.

He thinks we have a strong case to go after them for the cost of all the repairs and all related fees and costs related to sorting this out.

OP posts:
EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 31/08/2017 18:52
Shock My landlord has no idea how lucky she is, reading this Grin.

If she's now trying to negotiate, what if she did make all the changes you've requested?

Laska5772 · 31/08/2017 19:12

if you did decide to give her 'another chance'. would that mean in effect she could argue that you accepted the changes to p roperty running a usiness and pets etc made by the invalid TA?.

I think ( sad though it may be for her , if she has genuinely been misled) , that id definately be insisting she left as from her attitude it doesnt seem that she would treat the property with much respect on a new tenancy or ensure the property would be put back as it was before the changes ? .. Is the partner still there, has his name also been put on the invalid TA?

If she /they did stay I assume you'd be asking for 6mth agreement only and new deposit?

Needmoresleep · 31/08/2017 20:06

This is so shocking. I really hope your solicitor is able to take action against the agent. You deserve compensation for all that you have been through.

Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 31/08/2017 20:40

if you did decide to give her 'another chance'. would that mean in effect she could argue that you accepted the changes to p roperty running a usiness and pets etc made by the invalid TA?

I don't think so, she is asking for a fresh start away from the EA, with a completely new TA and she'd be willing to make any changes she needs to in order to stay in the house, or so she says... the solicitor and I bother assume she means she will sort the house out and get rid of the pets if she has to, she told him she has already found a new place to run her business from so will no longer be doing it from the house.

Is the partner still there, has his name also been put on the invalid TA?

As far as I know the partner is still there, his name is on the invalid TA.

If she /they did stay I assume you'd be asking for 6mth agreement only and new deposit?

That's what the solicitor recommended.

But honestly I can't let her stay, as bad as I feel for her, if she is telling the truth, i still think she has behaved terribly and it's all caused me so much stress I just want to be done with it now.

OP posts:
MoreProseccoNow · 31/08/2017 21:10

I think your decision is correct; it sounds like trust has broken down (understandably) with your tenant & I don't see a way forward from that.

tribpot · 31/08/2017 21:21

God no you could not possibly let her stay now. She may have been a victim of an unscrupulous agency (except they gain very little out of it, bar the guaranteed commission for the next 175 years or so) but she has behaved in a ridiculous fashion, made no effort whatsoever to find out the true nature of the situation herself, and been plain rude and obstructive. You could simply never trust her again. And certainly never trust that she might not attempt to reinstate the invalid tenancy agreement once she had her feet back under the table.

There needs to be a complete line drawn under this incident. That can't happen whilst she's still there.

Laska5772 · 31/08/2017 21:33

Yes I agree OP. I hope they will just go gracefully now and you wont have to go down the court route..