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Original poster

Landlords - can letting agents issue a new tenancy agreement to the tenant without your knowledge or permission?

243 replies

DancingOnTheTable · 14/06/2017 13:09

I'll try to keep this a simple as possible.

I own a house that is very far away (other end of the country, in England) we specifically wanted a long term tenant that would look after the house well so we were very involved with the process of selecting a tenant but left all the formalities to the estate agents as they would be handling the day to say running or the letting.

It's been several years and we have found out completely by accident that the tenant is no longer in the situation she was in before, she has moved a partner in and had another child, she has several dogs and cats and is running a business out of the house.
Some of it I don't mind about, but others I'm less happy about.

I contacted the EA to see if they knew about any of it and they confirmed that they did, and that they had given the tenant a new tenancy agreement which names her partner as a joint tenant and also mentions her being allowed the pets and to run her business in the house, the tenancy is also for substantially longer than the original one (which was initially supposed to with be renewed annually or go onto a rolling monthly contract)

I'm very unhappy. The EA have said they think I'm over reacting.

Can they really issue a new tenancy agreement, particularly to a new person with clauses that I did not approve?

The EA have said that I basically have to like it or lump it because I can't ask the tenant to leave until the TA is up.

OP posts:
badgercat · 05/07/2017 07:23

I can't believe they are arguing this ? They must be fairly confident or really bloody arrogant !

wowfudge · 05/07/2017 07:27

The agents don't seem to understand the first thing about their own contract. I can't see that a clause stating their management fees for the duration of the tenancy must be paid would stand up in a situation where you're given notice due to their failure to abide by the terms agreed with them. And who in their right mind would sign up to that? 3 months max. would be more like it. When our agent cocked up over repair and maintenance issues they hadn't dealt with, they waived the notice period when I told them I would takeover the management of the rented property.

InfiniteSheldon · 05/07/2017 07:41

Place marking and horrified!

OVienna · 05/07/2017 07:49

Dancing what does your solicitor say?

I think you need to investigate possible links between the two of them. Have you looked at Companies House, family records, etc. Social media links?

EA is either completely ignorant or just trying to brazen it out.

OVienna · 05/07/2017 09:10

Regarding the Land Reg it was also that I was interested to know whether the ea would be aware he or someone had to file the deed there for a tenancy of that length as special said. If nothing is there that would seem to be further proof he is winging it.

I appreciate there may be limits to what you want to say online.

MoreProseccoNow · 05/07/2017 10:39

OP, do you have legal expenses cover as part of your LL insurance? Might be worth checking out before you instruct a solicitor.

Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 05/07/2017 11:31

Yes sorry, bloody autocorrect, I mean I did check the land registry.

So they want you to pay what, their management fees for the duration of the 'tenancy' you didn't agree to and which they had no authority to set up?

Yes that's exactly what they want.

My solicitor is investigating the possibility of a connection between an employee of the EA and the tenant.

The letter the solicitor sent to the EA has given them notice to the end of the section 21 so hopefully the tenant will just leave and I can be done with the both of them.

OP posts:
wowfudge · 05/07/2017 12:34

They are brazen, the lot of them. I suspected some collusion ages ago and am becoming more convinced of it. Also there's the potential there is something criminal afoot too. You live 400 miles away I think you said; I bet they thought if you were getting rent you wouldn't question anything.

Another thing you might want to check is that the tenant has the correct licences for the business she is running from the house and has the correct use class in place. You can check this via the planning department at the local council.

Badweekjustgotworse · 06/07/2017 00:50

Unbelievable, I can't actually get my head around what their end goal is here. Surely no one in their right minds would expect anyone to pay up that amount with out a fight and it's a fight they're doomed to loose for all the reasons stated above. And if they're attempting to intimidate you into staying with them then its so utterly insulting and pisstakery that they're crazy to think that would work with anyone with any modicum of self respect or sense... I cannot fathom their motives, they are simply deluded.
I hope you're solicitor can put them down quick!

MoreProseccoNow · 06/07/2017 08:59

A great case in point to illustrate why letting agents should be regulated.

I wonder if the letting agent is a member of any of the trade organisations e.g. ARLA - and you could complain to them? Or if the owner is a surveyor go through RICS etc?

SummerLovingGal · 06/07/2017 09:34

Aghast at this situation, it defies belief!

Could you give an idea of the location of the property? Maybe if you pm'd some local mumsnetters they could do some sleuthing regarding possible links between the agents and the tenant?

Agree about checking if the tenant has the correct licences for her business.

It all sounds very very dodgy.

DividedKingdom · 06/07/2017 09:44

Good grief I'm so shocked to read this thread dancing. I hope your solicitor comes down hard on both the EA and tenant, this is absolutely appalling.

OVienna · 06/07/2017 15:05

Is there ANY chance there has been a change of staff at the EA and someone could have set up this scam unbeknownst to the people you are currently dealing with there?

OVienna · 16/07/2017 16:29

Bumping in case there's an update to be had....

This will be the threads I wonder about years later...

Blackgrouse · 16/07/2017 20:15

Absolutely shocking!! I rent out a property and would say I'm quite laid back re pets, I don't increase the rent if the tenants are good and plan to stay long term and I am happy for long term tenants to make changes to the property (within reason).
Having 4 dogs, and cats without permission and running a business from the property is completely taking the piss.

No way on earth can the letting agent have thought you would be ok with this. As said above there could be serious issues with your insurance cover. As for the almost 10 year tenancy agreement, just unbelievable.

I'd be wanting to know if the tenant has the correct insurances and is declaring her earnings from the business and paying tax. She seems very underhand with everything else.

Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 16/07/2017 20:29

I promise I will not be one of those posters who never come back to conclude a thread.

I haven't updated because literally nothing has as happened.

The EA and the tenant have both ignore everything so far.
We are just going to go ahead with the section 21, the solicitor has no doubt that we will end up in court and then end up having to go through the entire rigmarole it entails.

I promise the second anything happens I will update the thread and let you all know.

OP posts:
DividedKingdom · 16/07/2017 20:35

Very best of luck OP

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 16/07/2017 20:39

Good luck!

OVienna · 16/07/2017 21:19

Thanks for the message and best of luck to you. I cannot believe they are just ignoring you. It's so outrageous. It's hard to know where to start.

Do you have someone who can do a reccy for you? Has she blocked you on FB? You mentioned FB earlier.

SPARKLYSTARSHINESBRIGHT · 17/07/2017 19:58

The law's on your side, good luck!

OVienna · 01/08/2017 16:49

No news @OP

Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 04/08/2017 10:08

No really.

It's all been very quiet, ion until this week.

The EA have continued to send me the rent payment as usual but have ignored all letters, emails and phone calls from the solicitor.
I'm not bothering to even try to speak to them myself.

The tenant has 4 weeks until she has to leave under the section 21.
On Monday I had the solicitor write to her to tell her that I expected the property to be returned to the condition and layout that it was when she moved in and for and damages over standard wear and tear to be put right, she emailed back to say she won't be doing anything to the house as she 'had permission from her landlords to do everything she's done to the house and she likes it exactly how it is and won't be changing a thing'.

Angry

The solicitor is drafting a reply today to tell her she's leaving so nobody cares what she likes.

OP posts:
specialsubject · 04/08/2017 10:37

The nightmare continues, so sorry.

As you are hopefully aware, she doesn't have to leave under the section 21. So the solicitor needs to be careful what they write. There are swingeing new laws and penalties for landlord harassment, some are in force now. If your tenant starts playing those cards you have colossal problems. Do not give any excuse.

Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 04/08/2017 12:17

What do you mean Special?

Everything has been done 100% to the letter of the law, I haven't done anything to harass the tenant.
This is the first time we have contacted the tenant since she received the section 21, which tells her her tenancy ends on 31/08/17 and she has to vacate the property by the end of the day on 01/09/17.

I had the solicitor send the letter because I have no idea what the EA are telling her but I wanted her made aware that I want the house back to how it was before she leaves or I will be charging her for the damage.

I know that legally she can choose to stay past the 01/09 and my solicitor has already prepared everything to immediately apply for an accelerated possession order.

OP posts:
specialsubject · 04/08/2017 12:31

No, you aren't harrassing the tenant but she may play the law to say that you are. I was advised to stay well clear during the eviction process because a savvy tenant can play the system.

Hope you aren't in London because it may be a year before she is gone.

The summer emails from Tessa shepperson via labdlordzone are worth a read.

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