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Original poster

Landlords - can letting agents issue a new tenancy agreement to the tenant without your knowledge or permission?

243 replies

DancingOnTheTable · 14/06/2017 13:09

I'll try to keep this a simple as possible.

I own a house that is very far away (other end of the country, in England) we specifically wanted a long term tenant that would look after the house well so we were very involved with the process of selecting a tenant but left all the formalities to the estate agents as they would be handling the day to say running or the letting.

It's been several years and we have found out completely by accident that the tenant is no longer in the situation she was in before, she has moved a partner in and had another child, she has several dogs and cats and is running a business out of the house.
Some of it I don't mind about, but others I'm less happy about.

I contacted the EA to see if they knew about any of it and they confirmed that they did, and that they had given the tenant a new tenancy agreement which names her partner as a joint tenant and also mentions her being allowed the pets and to run her business in the house, the tenancy is also for substantially longer than the original one (which was initially supposed to with be renewed annually or go onto a rolling monthly contract)

I'm very unhappy. The EA have said they think I'm over reacting.

Can they really issue a new tenancy agreement, particularly to a new person with clauses that I did not approve?

The EA have said that I basically have to like it or lump it because I can't ask the tenant to leave until the TA is up.

OP posts:
wheresmyphone · 21/06/2017 22:36

Your apology is accepted. 😀😀 I am a landlord and am
Incredulous at your EA. so wrong on so many levels. Good luck.

Badweekjustgotworse · 21/06/2017 23:19

dancing I think you may well bunker down for a long protracted drawn out to and fro with solicitor and EA. main thing I'd be gunning for now is to get your solicitor to get you out of the contract with your EA, they're blatantly not acting in your interests and with your property investment at stake I'd be looking to protect your asset and get shot of them.
Gin for you

phoenixtherabbit · 21/06/2017 23:41

I bet your solicitor will be able to pull their water tight contact apart In minutes.

Ea is telling you you've basically signed away all rights and keep out of it, but the TA says you've got to agree in writing to any changes.... Yeah seems very watertight.

Ooogetyooo · 22/06/2017 11:58

Marking my place!,

Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 27/06/2017 18:37

I have an update.

The EA didn't bother to reply to my solicitor so he sent them a letter telling them that I am basically terminating my employment of their services and that they are not to have anything more to do with the property and are to return any keys they hold.

He also contacted the tenant to say that the EA is no longer having anything to do with the property and from now on she is to contact me if she needs anything. Also her rent I should now be paid to me directly.

She called me today and said that she doesn't want me or the solicitor to contact her again, that her tenancy agreement is with the EA and they are her landlords and they have told her not to speak to me at all.

I explained the situation to her but she was adamant that her loyalty was to her 'landlord' and she would not deal with me.
so I just told her that if that's what she wants I'm more than happy to accept her notice on the property, I told her I would expect a copy in writing by next week.
She then said "I've got a contract that says the house is mine until 2025, I'm not going anywhere" and she hung up on me.

So the solicitor has suggested I just go straight to issuing her with a section 21, using the original TA and ignore the new one she has for now.

I don't think this is going to be at all easy though.

OP posts:
AdalindSchade · 27/06/2017 18:40

2025?!?!?! They gave her a 10 year tenancy?
Yes no judge will uphold that, so serve her notice and take her to court.

OVienna · 27/06/2017 19:57

Holy cow. How stressful for you! They were clearly taking the view: out of sight, out of mind. Practically speaking, what happens now? How do you enforce it if she won't go?

Trethew · 27/06/2017 20:01

Simply unbelievable. It's been suggested before, but now I'm convinced there's got to be some sort of personal relationship between tenant and EA

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 27/06/2017 20:06

Fucking hell. I really honestly didn't think this could get worse. I am so so sorry.
I would go with your solicitors advise -start section 21 and be aware this can be a long and painful process.
Surely there must be further action that can be taken against the estate agent as well. But omg.

LamppostInWinter · 27/06/2017 20:19

A tenancy that long would have to be signed as a deed. Does the copy you've been sent describe itself as a deed anywhere? If not that could be an angle your solicitor could take.

What redress scheme are they a member of? They have to be answerable to a property ombudsman or they are in a lot of trouble. Worth looking into.

wowfudge · 27/06/2017 20:31

How can someone be so thick as to think their tenancy is with the agent not the landlord? Entirely possible the agent has tried to pull the wool over the tenant's eyes or is backside covering. I don't think it is possible to have an AST for that length of time either. Someone at that agency is up to no good. See if you can find the tenant and any of the people at the agency on Facebook and screenshot if they are friends and any photos, messages, etc in evidence.

wowfudge · 27/06/2017 20:32

Lamppost has it on the tenancy agreement.

QuiteUnfitBit · 27/06/2017 20:40

I had a nasty experience with a letting agency, and was able to use the online electoral roll to discover that two people were connected. It might be worth trying that avenue, if you are looking for connections between people.

OVienna · 27/06/2017 20:43

I wonder what would happen if you made a request under the data protection act for materials held by the EA pertaining to you? I need to think through this and I appreciate it is out of left field.

CotswoldStrife · 27/06/2017 21:05

Ten years?! They can't possibly have issued a ten year tenancy! What did it say in the agreement that they sent you (do you have a copy?)

wheresmyphone · 27/06/2017 21:37

I have nothing to add except OMG! I am speechless. The EA is NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Arkengarthdale · 27/06/2017 21:39

This is so dodgy! Good luck Smile

wheresmyphone · 27/06/2017 22:02

Thinking about it it could work in your favour. It's so absolutely and totally nuts no one in their right mind would agree to it without loads of guarantees and contingencies. Think it just shows how dodgy the whole thing is as it so far out of the ordinary.

Original poster
DancingOnTheTable · 27/06/2017 22:03

They have clealy though they were being clever as the tenancy was for 9 years and 11 months (it has a start and end date on it) the solicitor thinks they did that on purpose to avoid breaching some AST clause that makes it a different kind of tenancy.

The tenant seems to be under the impression that I have no rights and nothing to do with her tenancy or the house while she is renting it, I'm pretty sure she had been told specifically what to say to me as she quoted almost word for word some of the delightful things the EA said to me last week.

the solicitor is confident that they don't have a leg to stand on, so to speak, but has warned me that it could be a long process.

I will keep you all updated though.

OP posts:
TheweewitchRoz · 27/06/2017 22:25

Just read your thread Op - sounds shocking. Hope you get sorted!

CotswoldStrife · 27/06/2017 22:51

Our LA advised a contract of 18 months max! It does look as if it is going to be a long, drawn-out process by the LA's refusal to engage with your solicitor but I just can't see how they can justify that tenancy agreement. I hope they see sense very soon.

EpoxyResin · 28/06/2017 07:47

Well it certainly looks like there's some collusion going on doesn't it. I thought at first that would be unlikely, but given the details I can't see how the tenant could NOT be in on it!

Glad to hear your solicitor's on it - good luck OP.

allwornout0 · 28/06/2017 09:27

OMG!
Surely this is a case for the high court sheriffs, although when a relative needed them for a problem eviction they were told there was a backlog as they are so in demand nowadays due to so many problem tenants.

LilaBard · 28/06/2017 09:52

Your (ex)EA is nuts. Your tenant is nuts. An almost 10 year contract? I rented for years and never had more than 1 year at an time, followed by at most 6 monthly extensions. I'm sorry I have no advice, though it sounds like your solicitor is on the ball, but hope it gets sorted soon and you take the EA for all you can for doing this. So dodgy.

specialsubject · 28/06/2017 14:09

they aren't that clever because there's no magic about 10 years.

anything over THREE years needs to be a witnessed deed.
over seven years goes to the land registry.

agent making it up, so is tenant.

oh, and you don't get to choose to use the high court enforcers, you apply and the judge decides.

hopefully you can start the section 21. The whole thing is going to take at least six months. The battle with the agent is a separate thing.

make sure your solicitor is a tenancy law specialist because you are going to need one to get this tenant out.