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Original poster

Advice please: cost caused by seller's delay

237 replies

moniack · 03/04/2016 00:29

Hi, I'm a first time buyer in London. BF and I had our offer accepted on a house at the beginning of Dec 2015. We were told there was no chain but the seller was very, very slow with providing legal documents (only got them by the end of Feb and still some outstanding questions). It turned out that there is not only a chain, but a very complicated one with selling two to buy one, family inheritance issues blablabla... The seller said twice that they were going to exchange but then later cancelled because their seller couldn't exchange with them that day. From what the agent told us, they missed the April 1st stamp duty deadline because of their seller's fault. They had to re-negotiate and their seller agreed to compensate for that. It seems that if we pull out now, it's going to leave them over a shit creek without a paddle. But both BF and I are really pissed off, they just assume that we are desperate and never going to change our mind so they would only exchange when it's completely safe for them, not to mention lying to us from the very beginning. We are now thinking of asking for a reduction, not a greedy one, just to cover the last two months rent, something 3k, less than 1% of the house price.

People who have sold houses before, could you be so kind to advise if it's a reasonable thing to do. We can afford to lose the house as we actually budged higher than this current house and the stamp duty thing may cool down the market a little bit now. But I don't want to create bitterness and worried they might accept and then do some damage to the house before they leave. (they seem to be quite selfish people judged from their behaviour).

Thanks again.

OP posts:
evrybuddy · 04/04/2016 12:10

@bearbehind

yes, people do need to compensate if they delay, even before the contract

No they don't.

The OP knows this - as you know from reading the thread.

Being all pedantic and literal doesn't add anything.

Original poster
moniack · 04/04/2016 12:11

Well, ok, people don't have to compensate if they delay before the contract, but it's not unreasonable to ask so, as our seller did. And I will use my bargaining power as a buyer to argue that. How many times do I need to explain this?

OP posts:
evrybuddy · 04/04/2016 12:12

*everybuddy the stamp duty deadline only affected the OP in terms of time, not additional cost.

She has no right to ask for compensation as she won't be out of pocket because of increased stamp duty.

She might be out of pocket due to the general delay, but as I said above, until you exchange, that's how house buying here works, like it or not.*

She has every right to ask - and as she knows - she may or may not win that argument.
The stamp duty issue affected the chain - which affected her.
She is out of pocket because her vendor lied and she now has to continue in rented property.

She can ask what she wants - and she can tell the vendor to swivel on it - that's how house buying here works, like it or not.

bearbehind · 04/04/2016 12:13

evry if the OP knows this, why did she say the first quote you've just copied?

Why is she wanting a reduction/ compensation?

Interesting that it's only you and her on the same page and using the @'s though".......Hmm

bearbehind · 04/04/2016 12:20

it's not unreasonable to ask so, as our seller did.

Your seller will now have to pay an additional 3% stamp duty as they did not complete before Thursday.

That is an exact cost and completely quantifiable.

You have incurred no such cost.

LittleBearPad · 04/04/2016 12:20

If she hadn't been lied to she could have gone ahead with another house 17 weeks ago.

But that doesn't mean she would have completed by now. 17 weeks (with Christmas in there which means sod all gets done) isn't that unusual.

If the chain aspect was such a problem the OP could have pulled out as soon as she found out.

In any event OP you really do need to calm down.

Original poster
moniack · 04/04/2016 12:38

Believe me, if we found out earlier we would have pulled out, they only told us by the end of March, because we were chasing them so much and they finally revealed the chain and stamp duty situation.

I'm trying to calm down, already found a couple of places quite interesting and will start looking again this week. I was a bit irritated that some people here totally stand with the seller and showed no sympathy for me situation. But some are warm and understanding, and many thanks to them.

OP posts:
LittleBearPad · 04/04/2016 12:44

People haven't stood with the seller. They've just largely pointed out a few realities.

Ie that you aren't out of pocket, that the process takes months typically and your situation isn't unusual and that pulling out now, which you are perfectly entitled to do, will cost you financially and delay your buying a house for even longer. None of which is standing by the seller.

Original poster
moniack · 04/04/2016 12:46

To bearbehind

Thank you for pointing out the etiquette of forum, but I don't think it's very relevant here. Also, I think using "To" or @ does make things clearer if other people want to follow it, especially if you are replying to different people.

I want a compensation because there is a cost, which is my rent, because of their delays and lies. They don't have to pay it, but if after 17 weeks and they can't accept a ddl to exchange, and certain penalty after that, then I take it as they have no intention or faith to sell.

People seem be get stuck with the point that they are not legally binding to compensate anything because there is nothing legally binding yet. My point is that's a way to force them to show their commitment. And I have a tangible loss which is my rent, to base that on. To be honest do I even care that much about the rent? We are even fully prepared to walk away with 3k survey and legal fees down the drain! We just don't want to waste more time on this seemingly endless process, which is already well above a no chain sell (17 weeks and still no exchange). Don't tell me this is how a chain works, we were told there was NO chain.

I do hope this post will help to clarify my points. As for people who misinterpreted it, whether on purpose or not, this is my final post.

OP posts:
bearbehind · 04/04/2016 12:46

OP, no one here is standing with the buyer, we all just understand the house buying and selling process and acknowledge the fact delays are virtually inevitable.

by all means ask for a cost reduction if you want to but, given you only found out a week ago that there would be a delay and also given your sellers were striving for exchange before 31st March therefore may well be fairly close, any amount you could realistically ask for would be negligible ie a few weeks rent, and changing the purchase price will lead to all sorts of delays in itself.

By all means look at other options but bear in mind you might end up in exactly the same situation a few months down the line.

bearbehind · 04/04/2016 12:52

X post.

The reality is, if everyone demanded like for like compensation for every penny of their additional rent/ mortgage costs everytime a property purchase was delayed the market would grind to a halt.

noone is arguing that you need to set a deadline, only that you deserve compensation for the delays so far.

Original poster
moniack · 04/04/2016 13:00

Yes, but we don't even know if they were striving for exchange before 31st March, given that they lied to us about the chain, so who knows it's not another lie to keep us patient and sweet? So my strategy is, ok, you said you are about to exchange, (although they already said it twice and never happened, in fact they said they will exchange today, no news so far), so I will give you a soon ddl, if you still can't exchange by then. Then, either you accept a penalty for the excessive delay, which is "a few weeks rent" (not that small, it's in London), or we will pull out because we don't trust you anymore.

OP posts:
Original poster
moniack · 04/04/2016 13:05

I feel I'm deserved, because they lied to us about the chain, it's as simple as that. We were both told by the vendor when we visited and the EA clearly, that they only wanted a quick move. Then three month later there turned out to be a very complicated chain. I know some people may not agree, but I'm sure some would feel morally I deserve some reasonable compensation.

OP posts:
bearbehind · 04/04/2016 13:08

in fact they said they will exchange today

OMFG, 6 pages of you ranting about compensation etc and you are due to exchange today and you only found out it was delayed at the end of March.

you need to wind your neck in.

evrybuddy · 04/04/2016 13:12

*evry if the OP knows this, why did she say the first quote you've just copied?

Why is she wanting a reduction/ compensation?

Interesting that it's only you and her on the same page and using the @'s though".......hmm*

You're the only person complaining about forum etiquette and childishly implying non-existent connections.

If you'd read the complete thread you'd know why she feels entitled to be compensated for her rent beyond the time when her vendor indicated exchange would occur.

The vendor lied about their status.

It's not a hard concept to grasp.

Everybody accepts there is no legal right to compensation

But there is nothing to stop the OP using her bargaining position to twist the vendor's arm for a price reduction or contribution to her rent incurred because of the vendor's deceit and tardiness.

Everybody accepts the vendor can refuse this and the OP accepts she could lose the property and she's OK with that.

It seems to have put people's backs up that she should even have the temerity to ask for a reduction.

Ridiculous, entitled nonsense.

bearbehind · 04/04/2016 13:14

everybuddy have you seen the fact the OP is actually due to exchange today?!

evrybuddy · 04/04/2016 13:14

*in fact they said they will exchange today

OMFG, 6 pages of you ranting about compensation etc and you are due to exchange today and you only found out it was delayed at the end of March.

you need to wind your neck in.*

Have you read the thread?

If so you know English is not the OP's first language.

*So cut her some fecking slack on her tenses and sentence construction you rude bugger!"

evrybuddy · 04/04/2016 13:17

Good luck OP - however it pans out - life's too short for this one Wink

bearbehind · 04/04/2016 13:20

I haven't mentioned tenses or sentance construction I did mention the irritating use of @ buts that's it. Hmm

I appreciate she may not understand 'wind your neck in' so I'll clarify that it means she needs to stop blowing things completely out of proportion

AwakeCantSleep · 04/04/2016 13:33

OP. I can understand why you are annoyed. I would be too. People may or may not have lied to you. (Maybe the vendor did originally plan for a quick, chain free sale, but then their circumstances changed, who knows.)

Others have pointed out that you are not contractually due any compensation. I'm afraid that throwing a "you owe us compensation for your lies" tantrum is going to make you look very silly. It is also going to make your threat to pull out of the purchase less convincing (it tells the vendors that you don't really want to pull out, you just want some money off).

You have a lot to lose by pulling out but if you want to put some substance behind your threat you could make known via your solicitor that you intend to pull out on x date if exchange hasn't happened by then. Then book in some viewings for other house matching your criteria that are listed with your vendors' estate agents. Appear to be serious about that. It might hurry the chain along. Don't waste your time arguing who has lied to whom. It is impossible to prove. You have no contract with your vendors' estate agent. You have no contract (yet) with the vendor.

Original poster
moniack · 04/04/2016 13:34

They said they were going to exchange twice before, and just didn't happen.

Do you like to be messed about like that?

Would you still trust what they said that they were going to exchange today?

We felt something was wrong well before the end of March, but only then did they reveal the true reason, wouldn't you call it lying if it happened to you?

Thank you for clarifying that expression. You are obviously a native speaker but you need to read in the context, not just highlight part of the fact and say I'm "blowing things completely out of proportion".

OP posts:
Original poster
moniack · 04/04/2016 13:39

To evrybuddy,

Well I take it as compliment if people talk to me as if I was a native speaker...

OP posts:
bearbehind · 04/04/2016 13:44

OP, you said above 'you don't even know if they were starving for completion by 31st March'' shortly followed by you saying they said they were about to exchange twice before.

Given that today is only the second working day since 31st March- those statements can't both be true.

If you are due to exchange today then how are you proposing to request your compensation?

bearbehind · 04/04/2016 13:45

Striving not starving!

Original poster
moniack · 04/04/2016 13:47

To AwakeCantSleep,

Thank you very much for the advice. Will make our points clear via solicitors. However the seller is registered with a very small agent so nothing suits us turned up so far, so what we could do was be very clear to the agent that we are not happy and are looking somewhere else now, but your point is very good point.We also have booked a couple of viewings already, so really not just threatening them...

OP posts: