I want to evict a tenant who has been there for 40 years

[RattysPicnic]

I would like a tenant who has lived in a cottage inherited by DH to leave. She has lived there for 40 years. She raised her family there, spent her marriage with her late DH, now looks after her DGC there. She pays very, very little rent and this has always been OK as she and her DH looked after the place. However, in the last 10yrs things have deteriorated, the house is now beginning to become quite a concern and the rent is approximately 1/4 to 1/5 of the market rent. The cost of repairs would run to ££££s - she couldn't afford it and I wouldn't expect her to pay it anyway. But we can't afford to do it either (as the rent would not cover it and we have no additional capital) and each week that goes by the place deteriorates further.

All and every suggestion welcome. I am braced for a flaming about putting an old lady out of her family home. I am also hoping for possible solutions! Thanks

Okay, buying is irrelevant, but my point is, I am sure that the tenant has never had any expectation that the house would ever legally be hers, as surely no one who rents a house would ever expect that it was given to them?

"Aga - you are not seriously saying that the OP can't increase the rent ?"

They may be able to increase the rent but the tenancy is not subject to a market rent, regulated tenancies are covered by fair rents, which are below market rent.

Here's an example:

www.theguardian.com/money/2012/jun/01/fair-rent-tenants-sitting-comfortably

"This year tenants will pay £348 a month for a one-bed flat. The fair rents are set every two years and go up according to a formula linked to inflation."

"A few doors down from Heathview, rightmove.co.uk is advertising a newly-refurbished one-bed flat in a 1950s block. It is very similar in design and size to the ones in Heathview, yet the landlord is asking for a rent of £1,516 a month. "

Yes, I did link to the bit about fair rent

And it could of course end up much closer to market rent than that one example seeing as it's a 4 bed detached farm with loads of outbuildings.

Whether the rent gets close to market rent in it's fairness is less relevant than the OP getting more than the nothing she currently gets.

She absolutely needs to get as much as possible so that she can fulfill her legal responsibilities to the property.

There is also an appeals process for the rent and you can apply yearly so you need to crack on OP

"So you would allow your 75 year old mother live in a place where the roof was in danger of falling in and with no idea that the heating would last the winter, just to prove a point? "

It's hardly proving a point, is it? The lady in question has an asset worth a lot of money. She has paid for it for 40 years. She's entitled to stay there. That's a bit more than 'proving a point'. It is her home for as long as she lives, and in that respect there is no difference between her owning the place and renting - the differences only comes in terms of disposal, which at this point is likely to be after death.

"Who would pay the 'substantial amount of money'? The op clearly doesn't have it."

The OP owns I think several properties, and this one, at least, is mortgage-free.

If you can pay the tenant say £30k to leave and the house is then worth £120k on the open market, then that's very simple isn't it? They might not have tens of thousands in the bank, but they can certainly raise capital. Which is the prudent thing to do, surely? Reality is, the tenant will need to be paid a lot of money to forego her legal rights. But if that then results in an unencumbered property which can be sold on the open market for much more, then that's a win-win isn't it?

I don't see how it's confusing to understand that the tenant has financially valuable rights here, which you have to pay for.

Think the property might be in Scotland as see from Ratty's past posts she lives there? So rents might be lower in rural areas?

In Scotland.

The conversion idea is a good one and is exactly what the next buyer will do - into one or two properties. We haven't got the resources to do it.

Just showed thread to DH and he thinks that tenants children might buy the property if we can approach them in the right way.

Even if the rents lower the fact the tenant has not maintained it will be taken into account

So if the property is assessed as needing £20 k of urgent repairs then that can be taken into account when the VOA decides the rent

Remember that it will be paid by housing benefit so the tenant is going to benefit from living somewhere dry, safe and warm

The OP doesn't have the money to repair the property that should be repaired by the tenant so will need to take over the repairs to protect her investment and protect herself legally

The only way that can happen immediately is to apply for a rent increase

Even though we all hate British Gas they will fit a boiler and you can pay for it over 3 years so that's an easy way to pay for it and good justification for a rent increase

"Whether the rent gets close to market rent in it's fairness is less relevant than the OP getting more than the nothing she currently gets."

She isn't getting nothing, she is getting £200/month compared with a market value of maybe £900/month.

At age 75 she is likely to live another 15 years.

I'm guesstimating the place is worth about £250k.

And I agree that she can apply to increase the rents, but she won't necessarily get much more.

They might be able to get a mortgage on the basis of £200/month being paid, maybe £50k-£60k? Use that to fix the roof and stop the property from deteriorating further, continue to collect the money every month, and wait for the tenant to die, then sell up at full market value.

Great idea to sell to the family

Make sure you get it properly valued though - I've been looking at farms and there's no small hobby farms with 4 bed detached houses anywhere I can find under 300k

I've no idea what your place is worth but it is your place for your children and grandchildren so you're not obliged to let it for tuppence

Ratty, they must have been discussing the situation, and hypothesising about possible outcomes. Your first port of call has to be discussion with the tenant and her kin.

I hope it goes well for you all. There's every possibility that it will.

Aga - I disagree that they won't get much more rent.

The tenant has not kept up repairs and it's causing the OPs property to lose value and become unsafe - all of that will be taken into account

"The tenant has not kept up repairs and it's causing the OPs property to lose value and become unsafe - all of that will be taken into account"

What repairs haven't been kept up? I read here that the roof is falling in, and that's the landlord's responsibility (given no paperwork to say otherwise), not the tenant's.

Agree with Minkah try to have a nice chat with tenant and her family.
Maybe a compromise can be reached.
If you just threaten eviction then they may dig their heals in, I know I would.
The property is not just bricks and mortar to the old lady, her memories of her husband and raising her children will be so important.
Shame you can't raise some revenue,wouldn't you loose financially if you just sell it.

You missed the post Aga from the OP that said repairs were the tenants responsibility as they were one of the reasons the rent was reduced

If it's not being repaired and it was the tenants responsibility they are going to agree the rent is put up to keep it habitable and prevent it falling into disrepair

If it's reaching beyond repair and into uninhabitable I'd guess that they might revoke the tenancy - it's possible you've a legal case for eviction depending on how bad it is.

Obviously you don't want to - but you also can't lose your entire investment and have the elderly woman living somewhere unsafe

"You missed the post Aga from the OP that said repairs were the tenants responsibility as they were one of the reasons the rent was reduced"

Well no, I read all the OP's posts and she says she can't find the tenancy agreement. So I don't really see how she expects to rebut the legal presumption that it's the landlord's responsibility. You would need some pretty strong evidence, and there's no mention that there's any.

There is mention - the fact the tenant used to do the repairs and now doesn't.

That's likely strong enough.

Aga - wasn't the lost paperwork a different poster who had just been widowed? I thought that was an entirely different person.

No, the OP. It helps to turn on colour highlighting in the settings so the OP is highlighted.

"There is mention - the fact the tenant used to do the repairs and now doesn't. "

Hmm, the problem is that sounds a bit anecdotal. You can't just say 'the tenant always did the repairs, honest guv'. You need some sort of proof of that.

Also repairs vary quite a lot in their nature. It's possible the roof has never needed attention in the past. Proving that the tenant painted the house, or that they put new carpet in wouldn't be enough, you need to show the tenant has a contractual obligation to maintain the fabric of the home.

Crikey! What a minefield!

Good luck OP. Would be lovely if her family could buy it.

Ratty I am not sure I understand why you can't get a mortgage on property to cover the repairs, unless you have said in which case I apologise.

I think one way you might want to approact the tenant/her children is to discuss the decrepitude of the building/roof, and the risk it represents to the grandchildren if any of it should fall on them! The tenant has lived there for long enough that she probably isn't' bothered by the increasing crumbliness and knows where not to go, as it were - but the children? Do they know? Could they end up climbing on walls that might fall, or going into rooms where the roof could fall on them?

Massive safety issue, IMO. The repairs are the responsibility of the tenant, she has failed to undertake them recently, the house is now dangerous and she is looking after children in an unsafe environment.

You could mention SS but that's a bit OTT - however, the children's parents need to be more aware of the state of the place and the agreement, and get something done about it.

Helena - if I was the tenant in this situation, I'm not sure I'd accept the gift if it meant I would have to pay out several thousands immediately for something I thought was the landlord's responsibility.

If the rent is £2,400 pa, I might consider that I wouldn't live long enough for the rent saving as an owner to outweigh the repair costs.

And she hasn't had "nothing" to show for it - she has had a home. Renting a 4 bed farmhouse for a two week holiday would probably cost more than this woman pays per year and no one considers that gives them ownership rights.

I do think the person who left your DH this house should have discussed some of these things with him first, OP! Was it valued at the time of the inheritance?

If we're talking about moral compasses I'm not sure I'm happy about a family that let an elderly member live alone and unaccompanied to the point the house is falling in and dangerous.

If her agreement was to carry out repairs and main then than she has been let down by her family.

It would have been valued for probate surely so you have an idea of the potential mortgageable value. A mortgage to pay for repairs combined with a rent increase to whatever level allowable might help.