I want to evict a tenant who has been there for 40 years

[RattysPicnic]

I would like a tenant who has lived in a cottage inherited by DH to leave. She has lived there for 40 years. She raised her family there, spent her marriage with her late DH, now looks after her DGC there. She pays very, very little rent and this has always been OK as she and her DH looked after the place. However, in the last 10yrs things have deteriorated, the house is now beginning to become quite a concern and the rent is approximately 1/4 to 1/5 of the market rent. The cost of repairs would run to ££££s - she couldn't afford it and I wouldn't expect her to pay it anyway. But we can't afford to do it either (as the rent would not cover it and we have no additional capital) and each week that goes by the place deteriorates further.

All and every suggestion welcome. I am braced for a flaming about putting an old lady out of her family home. I am also hoping for possible solutions! Thanks

hope it all works out.

this is all a classic example of why this type of tenancy went out, because it is bad for both sides. I hope all those that shriek 'rent controls' and 'lifetime tenancies' are reading.

There is a way to have fair rents on both sides and security on both sides. That is what the newer agreements and rules are for.

BTW landlord registration isn't in England (yet) but is coming in Wales.

Would it be poss. to draw up new deeds dividing the farmstead into 2 parcels? e.g. the farmhouse and small garden as one, and the outbuildings and remainder as another? you could then sell the 2nd parcel as development potential, raising money to repair the house, and leaving your sitting tenant there.
Although I agree selling to tenants family is best outcome.

Oh I think rent controls can be a good idea. Certainly a big improvement on the overheated, taxpayer-subsidised market of the present time.

They have to be done right, though.

And even though this type of tenancy may be particularly strict, part of the problem in this case seems to be that the previous owner couldn't be bothered to apply for a rent increase.

Helena I would be mightily surprised if the children had any interest whatsoever in living in a dilapidated farmhouse purely to spite the OP. Not everyone hates landlords that much.

They may have an interest in living in what they see as their family home and requiring the landlord to maintain the fabric as they should though. There's nowt as queer as folk and all that.

I hope you manage to get it all sorted. There is no doubt the tenant has benefited more from this arrangement than you have in being left a house.

That would be pretty queer.

It would be really odd for them to see it as something that would be passed down in their family when they know it's rented.

The old lady's had an easy ride for decades. THe property belongs to OP, not the tenant, and if they want to sell it, they have the right to do so. Get specialist legal advice OP and proceed accordingly. The tenant is not your responsibility as in it's not down to you to see that she's housed for the rest of her life.

Once upon a time it was considered quite normal to have rights to inherit a tenancy - the law did not emerge in a vacuum, it was a reflection of the times. This was in the era when owning a property was not really within most ordinary peoples' means.

Times have changed, and we would probably not now think it acceptable to have tenants inheriting tenancies, but once upon a time this was considered quite OK.

Council tenancies can still be inherited even now.

The tenancy may be inherited, not the property. In modern times I do not see why on earth her children would move back in to the house to retain the right to live in it. They no doubt have their own houses, and it hardly sounds like the Hilton to me.

Hi there, I have only just scanned this thread, but DH & I had exactly this situation (also in Scotland).

DH was left a small cottage - peppercorn rent tenanted by a family friend. Early in our marriage when we had just bought our own house we had to replace her double glazing, treat dry & wet rot and do the boiler.

I completely sympathise OP, no-one wants to put old ladies out of their homes but it cost us thousands. When DD1 came along & we couldn't afford to do our own windows, things came to a head.

In our case we approached her & her daughters to buy us out. After some thought her daughters clubbed together to buy the house for her. We had three valuations & agreed a price and it all went through quite smoothly. God knows what would have happened otherwise.

Being a landlord in these circumstances is very difficult, we didn't choose to own the 'asset' and couldn't afford to invest in it.

I hope you get it sorted OP.

It sounds like you have your hands tied. The rent may have been quite cheap before, but the house has been neglected so as to deteriorate to the rent level.

If the rented house is in such bad condition, why aren't the woman's family helping her out or ensuring she ends up in better accommodation. Maybe it suits them quite well to retain Mama in situ, keeping an entitlement alive in order try and benefit from a sitting tenant status on someone else's property. People can be very greedy and opportunistic.

If it is in such bad repair, I would be worried about being sued by the woman who rents it if anything should happen. Especially if there are children being minded there. Is prosecution likely on the let property meeting regulations?

I'd get proper legal advice on this, from an expert.

Maybe the family of the woman renting the house think they will get the house at a bargain basement price if during her tenancy, they ensure she doesn't do any of the repair jobs she is responsible for and they don't help her out in any way.

We spoke to the tenant. Well, we asked someone from the family who has known her way back to speak to her. Our go-between basically said we were strapped for cash and would need the property back - but in a nice way. It was a bolt from the blue.

We'd suggested her children be at the meeting and they were there. Apparently they seem a bit more feisty about it than she does. It turns out that she's had a bad year and might like to move into the local town rather than be rural. The go-between reported back that it had been a bit of a bombshell and we'd best leave it for a while. However, it seems possible that she'll just go, but it'll be in her own time to her own timetable.

I'm now just hoping that lots of people will tell her that Spring is the best time to move.

Oh, but it turns out she's got quite a lot of cash stashed away (all that disposable income after such a low rent). The children were clear there'd be no possibility/need for housing benefit and money wasn't an issue when it came up in the context of local rents.

So did you speak to the children yourself? I'm just wondering how they feel about their mother continuing to live in a property falling into dangerous disrepair? I hope they are keen to encourage her to move somewhere more comfortable, and aren't just keeping one eye on her savings.

No, I wasn't there. It was decided it would be better for DH's relative who they know/trust to speak on our behalf, just to open dialogue and see what the reaction was. At the moment, it seems they're just taken aback.

The children don't seem that fussed about the state of repair. I'm certain they've got an eye on the savings.

This thread is batshit crazy. I have read it like this

I really hope it works out for you OP.

Yes, in times gone by, people expected to have their day in the same house, but life just isn't like that anymore.

I grew up in a family members house with a peppercorn rent (never knew that term before) and it was hell. The roof leaked really quite badly, there was no heating at all, the draughts were shocking. And our "landlord" did nothing about it because it was an old house and there was no point throwing good money after bad.

However, my parents benefited from living basically rent free for over a decade and were able to save enough to be able to buy a very decent house with a smaller than usual mortgage.

The OP owes nothing to this lady, old or not. There are no moral issues here. A tenancy is a tenancy, the lady is under no illusions that she only rents the house.

Only on mumsnet.

Does she use and maintain the outbuildings?

Just wondering, with the previous thread comments about conversion etc, whether they could be legally repossessed by you and with planning sold on?

Initial planning enquiries if you go to a planning clinic are free. I know its lots of ifs, but if you could get an indication that planning might be possible it could ease things quite significantly for you.

You're right. We think the outbuildings could be repossessed, partly because the tenant doesn't seem to think she 'uses' them. It's all quite hazy but we do think planning would be given for those buildings and they could be sold. We've got to get good advice on this because it may be that waiting for her to leave would make the outbuildings more attractive - someone could buy the lot and do up one, move in and do up the other. Also, we're a bit worried that it would be harder to sell the house if there was work going on on the other bit.

If she has any health probs she might get a one bedroom council flat or house for the same rent - (if she is fit she will prob be too far down the housing list).

My DM was overjoyed to move to a wee house in the town after a lifetime in a draughty farmhouse in the country.

In response to the suggestion the you give the house to the tenant. .....If the original owner wanted her to have it or thought it was appropriate he'd have willed it to her. It's a crazy suggestion.

A warm, low maintenance place in walking distance to shops etc might be very appealing to her as he gets older.

Hope it all works out.

It's nowt to do with what the owner wants, the tenant also has strong legal rights, which could make the property worth very little.

It sounds like a good idea to look at the buildings as two lots.

Although when we were looking to buy our house we were considering a house that needed loads of work, where most of its very large garden was being sold as a separate lot with planning permission granted and plans drawn up. It was a little unnerving to consider buying somewhere where you had no idea what would be built next door, as of course the plans were only a really a guide for what could be expected.

I'd say if it looks like it's going to go on forever and a day it would make sense if it's doable to sell the outbuildings lot and then when building has started and you know exactly what will be there either sell the house part as is or do it up and sell it assuming you make enough from the outbuildings.

At least she's not skint and relying on a council place, and has already been thinking of moving into the local town. I wonder why she's not moved before if she has the money? Maybe she likes the frisson of risk that the roof might fall in.

How's this going op? Any new developments from the old lady?