Renting and problem with neighbours (we are the problem)

[QED]

I live in a semi detached house with two DC aged 7 and 5. Have been here about 18 months. Last week next door neighbour came round about 8:30 - older DC had jumped off my bed a few times and neighbour was cross. DC immediately stopped.

On Tuesday night somewhere between 8 and 8:30 neighbour came round. Older DC had been bouncing a ball in the kitchen; had been doing it for a few minutes. XH was here at the time and he spoke to neighbour as I got upset. XH then went round to neighbour's house and spoke to him. Turned out his wife does shift work (I had not known about this) and was asleep and the ball bouncing had woken her up and naturally she was upset. When XH spoke to him he came up with a list of things including crashing up and down the stairs, ball bouncing, using scooters in the close where we live including it once being left on someone else's drive in the summer, slamming doors, using the Wii (television fine which is good as we don't seem to get a freeview signal any more and so hardly watch any television).

I got a bit more upset when XH told me about the things and worked myself up into being arrested for noise abatement type things or at least being evicted. Have obviously now spoken to the children and we are making a big effort. Ball playing inside house now banned. Some of the things I don't know what we can do about - the front door needs to be slammed a bit to shut it but am trying to do it more quietly. The children don't go up and down stairs that much and the stairs are on the opposite side to the adjoining one IYSWIM but they occasionally jump from the third step up so I am stopping that. Was worried yesterday as I was getting things out of the attic with a pull down ladder and worried this will have disturbed them.

Got a call from the letting agent this morning and on Tuesday after speaking to XH the neighbour called our landlord who naturally got in touch with the letting agent to speak to me. Spoke to her this morning and I think I explained it but am obviously worried that our tenancy won't be renewed (I pay 6 monthly in advance and am paid up until April but worried we could be evicted before that).

Does anyone have experience from either side of a neighbour complaining about a tenant? And are the DC and I being unreasonable in what we do? I agree they sometimes make a bit of noise, but I am not wanting to invite friends round etc in case they are too noisy and on Tuesday night was dreading next week when the children are off school as we might be too loud :(

Sorry for length of that (am regular by the way but using one of my (many) rarely used names).

Think you could do with a new title to attract people who work nights so that you can hear how others cope. From my point of view, I think the neighbour is taking it too far. I had a freind whose mum worked nights (nurse) and so we only went round to play when she was on her nights off and I know that they had to be reasonably quiet in the holidays when their mum was working but kids are kids. I think it is too much to ask adjoining neighbours to live their own lives in silence. Also the letting agent should let people know and the owner should stipulate only quiet people or people who work nights can rent the property! If you owned the property yourselves they could not expect you to live your life around them. Being reasonable is okay but this sounds like you have too many restrictions to me and as if they would have a problem with adults who have a normal life and even have a friend or two round. How does the wife cope when a noisy car drives by, music blarring out, or people enjoying their gardens, or workmen in the street, or unexpected doorbell being rung by postie or whoever etc etc????

Your neighbours sound unreasonable actually.

Your DC cannot possibly make that much noise.

Besides you are unlikely to be arrested for noise emanating from your premises during day light hours. Police are mostly concerned with 11pm to 7am. Or situations where 20 squatters are holding day long raves.

It's unfortunate that your neighbour is a shift worker. But that does not affect the views of the law.

As long as you take reasonable care.

And as for your landlord. You pay 6 months in advance!!!! Most landlords would kill for a tenant like you! Don't think it will be an issue.

my comment about "if you owned the property" only means they could not expect you to live like they expect for however many years and sell only to others who would be prepared to do the same.

YANBU!

It's difficult living in a semi detatched or terraced house with noise from neighbours. But I think if you live there you have to accept a level of noise. We live in a semi, our neighbours and their 3 kids are noisy, so are we, but that's the way it is.

Tricky also if someone works shifts. My DP does regular night shifts and sleeps with earplugs. We used to live overlooking a school where the kids were on rotating playtimes plus they would call them in with a handheld bell - but he never complained to the school and accepted that was the way life was.

you also sound much nicer than me - they'd have got far shorter shrift from me!

I think the landlord will realise that he'll have trouble finding a replacement tenant who'll be able to comply with the neighbour's requirements, especially if its a family house. So, he won't evict you.

Personally I'd look for a new home though because that neighbour is going to have you living on your nerves in case one of the children makes a noise. Its no way to live.

Thank you both - I am a bit calmer now (although would like the letting agent to ring back - she said she'd let me know when she's spoken to the landlord).

Both times there has been a problem is between about 8 and 8:30 at night when the neighbour was trying to sleep so I'm not quite sure what shifts she does work. Don't think it is permanent late shifts as she left the house at about 7am this morning.

They were also away quite a bit last winter so possibly the effect of two small children in a house wasn't something they had realised.

I haven't ever complained when their dog has left poo on our lawn (although may have muttered a little )

Have even been noting down anything we do that could be slightly noisy just to feel like I am covering myself. Hopefully will all end up fine but my natural anxiety is coming to the front a bit.

Ah more replies since I posted. Thank you for those as well :)

I don't want to move - I like it here - we are a couple of minutes walk from the school and it is a nice house and neighbourhood, although quite a few retired people who moan about children.

The letting agent assured me there haven't been any other complaints in the time we have lived here, but neighbour coming round twice in a week is a bit bad (these are the only times he has come round).

Am going to get off the computer now and do some (quiet ) housework but will check here again later.

I can see both sides.
On the one hand, if people buy houses/flats which are in close proximity to others, especially if they know there are thin walls between them, then really they're asking for trouble. They have to be prepared to put up with 'family noise' and they have to relinquish control over who lives next to them....The only way round it is to decide that they don't want to deal with those things and buy a detached house. Terraces are usually cheaper and one of the things you're saving on is isolation from others.

On the other hand, "kid noise" can be really bloody annoying, and if you do shift work, your body clock gets so messed up that reason doesn't work that well, and it might genuinely be unbearable for her. What's reasonable for you might be not reasonable for another family. We have neighbours who let their kids scream in the street: my threshold is much lower than theirs - I assume the 100 other people who can hear kids screaming don't want to be hearing that either, and I think it's a bit lax and entitled of the parents to just let it happen constantly. I think (tbvh) that bouncing ball noise indoors is irritating/unnecessary and I don't think it's unreasonable of them to not like want to hear that. Running up and down stairs/playing in the close are harder because they're pretty normal kid activities, depending on how they're done (as is screaming in the street which is why I don't say anything, I just judge the parents )

why can't she sleep in a room thats not attached to your house. This should reduce the noise made from your kids in the house. As for the kids playing outside you're damed if you do and damed if you don't these days! Don't worry

I hate noise of any kind with a passion, (and am not that keen on kids either ) but do you know what? YANBU at all from what you have said!

Obviously ball playing inside houses is never really on- but for goodness sake, everything else you have described sounds like normal "family" noise. Are the floors laminated or wood? Because if not, then I don't see how jumping from a coupleof stairs is going to be making so much noise the neighbours can hear.

Do the kids wear slippers inside? Daft question maybe, but I had to ask my upstairs neighbour if she could possibly take her grandson'sshoes off as his feet on the marble tiled floors in shoes were doing my head in.

(I'd do more than mutter if their dog was crapping on my lawn as well!)

Also just to say that perhaps they are extra annoyed because of the late hour: 8, 8:30 you would expect small kids to be in bed or to be wound down enough that they aren't haring around the house and jumping on beds. Well I would

I lied and came back and checked again

Floors all have carpets except for kitchen (where ball bouncing will never happen again. Well maybe if it is an invisible ball). The jumping off the bed was a one off - I realise I was being thoughtless in letting it happen but at the time didn't realise the implications due to the shift work.

I know that 8 to 8:30 is on the later side for going to bed but tbh the children have more of a late cycle and this includes waking up late. Am sure if they woke at 6am and were going around the house this could disturb people but when it's weekend or holidays they are unlikely to to wake before at least 8 which is a possible thing in their favour.

Dog has only crapped on the lawn a few times. May send the cat to crap on theirs.

Am really going to do something useful now - and thank you to everyone who doesn't feel I am the world's noisiest neighbour to have. Have been looking at other houses nearby but there aren't really any near enough. Will keep my eyes open though especially when it gets nearer to April.

Children always take their shoes off when they come into the house (and then can't find them when it is time to leave the house...)

hmm - I have to say I would NEVER complain about about noise at 8 to 8.30 -which is not my view that late for older DCs -even if it was annoying - which ball playign would be - and it would seem very very unlikly to me that it would be a reason for eviction or authorities - some people are just odd/intolerant - bit of a pain as you have to live next door to them - I think something like trying to be quieter after say 8 is the most you could do - normal kids stuff liking playing outside - having friends round is completly reasonable - don't stress too much

I think your neighbours are being unreasonable and hoping to browbeat you on account of you being tenants.

If someone works a shift that means they sleep unusual hours, unfortunately, they must expect some normal daytime noise. The odd bang (like a child jumping off a bed as a one-off) is to be expected. In fact one of the benefits they get from you being tenants is that you presumably don't move in and immediately do lots of DIY, as many homeowners would.

Your landlord probably knows which side his bread is buttered, but maybe you could write to him and say how happy you are with the place, and explain you feel the noise was quite reasonable? The LL will after all be keen to keep the same tenants if they are good.

Sorry, that was a comment rather than advice mostly ... but if it were me, I would not only write to the LL but also send a polite-but-firm note to the neighbours saying you feel that household noise is to be expected and the house is adequately soundproofed on your side.

It doesn't sound like you are making unreasonable noise - if you live in a family house you have to expect family noise! I can also see that it must be hard doing shift work but unfortunately I think that's just something they'll have to put up with. If it was me I'd probably ask what times are worst for them and try to adjust a bit if possible but I don't see what else you can do. Jumping off the bed is hardly a major crime is it

A ball bouncing off a wall would drive me mad. I am not surprised your neighbour is annoyed.

Do you have any hairy biker friends with loud motorbikes? Invite them round and pretend you are showing them round the house...

Drop a hint that you are so upset about the complaints that you may move out, and so far the landlord has sent round the following to look at the property:

• a family with 3 teenage boys
• a family with 2 rotweillers
• a family with newborn triplets

My Mum worked an evening shift and came home at 7am so slept at around 10am. When you are a shift worker you accept that because your own life is out of sync with everyone elses there will be noise.

Personally I would put it in writing to the letting agent what she actually complained about, and at what time it happened instead of it being verbal.

You are in a family house so it is expected that a family would live there. All the noise you mention is normal childhood behaviour.

If I were a landlord and you paid me in advance, and the complaint were about normal family life, I would just shrug it off. Even if she called environmental health about you there is nothing they can do.

We used to have neighbours whose house was at the bottom of our garden, their back door was behind our back fence. They would often have a shouting match at each other which resulted in them swearing at each other. I worked for the council back then, I spoke to environmental health about it and was told it was normal domestic noise, unless they are playing loud music there was nothing I could do.

Buy the neighbour some ear plugs

I think that your neighbour is being unreasonable. You have kids. If your landlord had a problem with that, then he shouldn't rent to families. i was a landlord - I said no pets.

We're currently renting and I'm really conscious of my year old waking at night and crying a lot from teething; usually he's not a crier. The floors all have laminate flooring, and I'm sure neighbours can hear him and us despite the rooms being big.

BUT, although we do everything to minimise the noise, there is noise in all adjoining properties. That's how it goes. We have to put up with the couple downstairs shagging endlessly and at all hours - 3am, 11am, 4pm - and shouting their heads off during proceedings [yuk emoticon], the guy hacking his guts up in their garden below our window because he's a chainsmoker and can't smoke in the building; and their Jerry Springer type rows on the doorstep with her ex.

Things come round, go round. It's urban living.

And yo believe me you're gold dust - paying 6 months in advance!!!! Wow. Not heard that in a long time. He won't find a better tenant in that respect.

If the door needs to be slammed a bit to close it, can you ask the landlord to take a look at it? You could state that in the long run you would hate for any damage to be caused to the door frame or plaster work surrounding it, as well as the noise concern.

Our next door neighbour has to slam her door to close it and it pisses us off, wish she would bloody fix it. Apart from that everything you describe is normal family living and if your neighbour does shift work, they have to deal with the consequences that entails.

Your neighbour is being horribly unreasonable. You can't expect people to live their lives like church mice, nothing you have described is excessive.

Your neighbour needs to invest in soundproofing or move to a detached house. If they persist in harassing you, raise the issue with the council.

and stop worrying!

your OP reminded me of this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1362981-The-constant-apologising-women-do-for-being-alive

you do have the right to enjoy your home - please don't let these bullies affect your happiness