Private School and Toxic posters…

[JustBecauseIcanComment]

….just curious why such toxic posts and posters? I’ve never seen so many vile posts - private school parents are elitist , all state school parents are envious, labour is evil, tories are evil etc. etc. All very sad 😞

It’s Mumsnet! I was shocked when I first starting looking at private school posts when considering sending my DS. Remember they’re all from posters who don’t have kids in private school. We chose to send DS and it couldn’t be further from the vile spewed on here. I have one in private and one in state so I can compare. Trust m, the big cars and the holidays to Disney or Dubai are all in state school, not private. Certainly in my (actual) experience.

It’s always going to be controversial when there’s something some people consider ‘better for their kids’ which isn’t affordable for everyone. It becomes a very emotional topic and people start getting very defensive of their choices, which generally looks like judgement on people who choose differently.

DS is in State primary - a very good one and similar to the private one we toured. I’m glad he’s well cared for there, and feel lucky that private is an option for the future if needed. For me though, it just doubles our options - neither is automatically better, or worse. But the level of snobbery that comes from the local private parents, and bitching about the private school from the state school parents, is astounding.

Because Labour have created a purposefully divisive policy and used emotive language to stir up class divides.
Because many posters simply don't know what your average local indy looks like and (because of Labour) associate them all with Eton.
Because as parents we are naturally emotinal about our kids so when a policy hurts them, we react.
Because we are sworn at, attacked etc just for wanting to do the best for our own kids.
Because Labour lied and continue to lie about the impact Vs revenue. They lie to both sides of the debate and yet people keep on believing them!
Because on MN during the election, and for a short while after, anyone criticising Labour was called a "Tory bot" and dismissed. Strangely enough those comments have pretty much disappeared now.

Fundamentally independent school is highly emotive yet according to Sutton Trust clearly highlights that there is as much (and actually MORE) social segregation in the top performing state schools as independent schools. That those top state schools have more "privilege" than your local independent school. However as most politicians who choose state, use those types of schools, they don't even mention that privilege because that is accepted privilege.

I would agree with the Sutton Trust research the 4 outstanding secondary schools in my area are exactly this ….socially divided…the kids that are from out of area often have the biggest shock etc. My DC has been state schooled until y9 and now private for the last 3. There was so much one up man / woman ship if the haves and haves nots in the state schools than we’ve experienced in private.

I can’t agree with everything in your post as this hasn’t been my experience or my belief however that doesn’t mean your experience isn’t true for you and truly hope that you don’t experience any further abuse 😊

Ish that’s great your DC has a great primary my DC loved their primary and like you we were/ are incredibly grateful for the care and the education they recieved. The choice to do private is exactly that….we chose private at y9 based on their needs and interests not because state was rubbish it wasn’t but it didn’t give my DC the extra-curricular that they loved do.

Hope your DC continues to thrive in their school life no matter whether this state or private 😊

Absolutely agree. The wealth in many good / outstanding schools is similar to privates and before anyone attacks me…yes there are crappy state schools etc.

the VAT threads are batshit

I will also add for consideration my left wing champagne socialist friends who would NEVER go private but are happy to spend a fortune moving to the areas beside the best schools and displacing the local kids. Gah.

Don’t have kids in private school but some of the posters on the VAT threads from private school parents were way OTT as some have pointed out.

Also lots of posters have a massive chip on their shoulder when it comes to money. Add in children and it becomes ugly very quickly.

It’s an issue which brings out the worst in people on both sides of the argument, especially on here.

It’s jealousy.

Chat bot creating fake arguments

@Bodonka

I agree with your post and I can see why people would get emotive about how they see some children getting an educational advantage based on money rather than intellectual merit.

What I don't understand is why people aren't more upset about private health care where literally some people get a better chance of living or at least better health based on money.

https://www.suttontrust.com/news-opinion/all-news-opinion/new-ranking-reveals-councils-with-most-and-least-socially-segregated-schools/

More likely envy.
Of course people want the best for their own children and will therefore struggle to feel happy that your kids get something better.
Most people want everyone to have it good.

Exactly this. I have a (former) friend who called us Tory arseholes (I mean literally) for sending our SEN DS to a small indy because the local state primary told us outright they could not meet his needs and promtply dropped us saying that our basic values were too different.

Same former friend played catchment monopoly. But they consider they are more ethical.

The top 100 state schools have as much (if not more) privilege (in terms of cohorts) than most independent schools. Politicians don't tackle this though because their kids go to those schools.

it's just bizarre how spiteful it gets...and as @1dayatatime says, why don't people attack private health care in the same way, as it's essentially the same premise...

With schools it's also very much about the right school for your child, I've just moved my DC out of state primary into an indie because otherwise the move to secondary in a year's time would have been disastrous for them (huge secondaries with minimal SEN provision and no provision for the subjects in which they excel).

I've moved to a more modest house in a cheaper area to finance it, we don't have overseas holidays and drive an inexpensive second-hand car, but somehow it is unacceptable to make those choices. Over time it'll actually work out less expensive than moving to a similar sized house within the catchment of the state school we also liked the look of...huge increase in mortgage vs fees just didn't stack up.

I don't believe that my DC are any better than anyone else's, but they are mine and I will do the best I possibly can for them within the resources I have available...

I have extended family who live in grammar school areas, whose kids all went to the grammar schools, and who look down their nose at us for paying for private.
They are not aware of my child's SEN / DME, nor should they be, because (a) it's not visible, and (b) it's none of their business. They are therefore not aware of why we chose the school we did. But they judge anyway.

I agree 90% of it is envy/jealousy, further whipped up by Labour and their mendacious language - "ending tax breaks" is a lie.

I also agree the healthcare analogy is entirely appropriate. I want an NHS that is fit for purpose and serves everyone. I'm happy to pay progressive income and wealth tax to fund that. But if the NHS can't, or chooses not to, deal with my condition, or the treatment they offer is not the best available, then I should have the right to pay from my earned, net, post-tax income for private treatment without unfair double taxation. Firstly, because it's a free country and I can spend my money how I like. Secondly because healthcare, like education, is a right and a public good, and no sane country taxes them.

@YellowSpotty

But surely a feeling of "unfairness" or "envy " should be greater against private healthcare than it is against private education.

Access to quicker healthcare by going private could literally make the difference between life and death.

The inequality in the state sector is becoming progressively worse and not better and it is obvious why! We all know that schools do not have enough money so we are all drawn to the schools with less social issues and where the PTA funds nice to haves and the parent groups have mates and connections to organise work experience and the management is quite nice and normal with excellent educational background and the teachers are largely “naice” too. Of course every child deserves that but if there is a complete lack of political will across the spectrum to actually tackle inequality in children’s lives then nobody, and I mean nobody who can, is going to be throwing their own children under the bus.
The worst offenders are the champagne socialist comprehensive schools who beat the state school card to secure elite university places. Nobody with a parent educated to degree level and from an affluent background should ever be getting a pass into universities (unless the child themselves has had terrible health, adverse circumstances). But the universities themselves probably want those better to manage students too (easier to study if you do not have to have a part time job term time and during all holidays), so pretty much the whole of society is conspiring against poorer disadvantaged children. It certainly is not just private schools.
The only solution is to give all poorer children scaffolding and online access to amazing resources, from an early age, so those who want to, can at least better themselves somehow, from a certain age.

Jealousy. A feeling of being inferior. Resentment. Lots of reasons. Same reasons why certain posters are vile on any post, not just private school posts.

I don’t think it’s as simple as envy or jealousy, although maybe it is for some people.

I think it’s a blatant, in your face sign of inequality.

I also can’t stand the hypocrisy of people who claim they are too ethical for private but pay a fortune for houses in the right area - in my opinion they are also buying educational privilege but can pretend they’re not. But that’s seen as fair game, you are sending your kid to the local school same as everyone else. So it’s not as blatant. Same as private healthcare. People don’t really see it so it doesn’t bother them.

7% is the figure quoted who go private, so the other 93% think what’s so wrong with our schools that you’re willing to spend so much money to avoid your kid going there?

But yes good old fashioned jealousy/envy too. Same as people who bitch about people who drive big expensive 4x4s. They’re not commenting about them online because of the environment, or safety, or in the case of Range Rovers in particular their alleged unreliability. It’s because most of us don’t have £100k+ to spend on a car and people like to tear down what they don’t/can’t have. I’m sure it’s been studied psychologically but I don’t think it’ll ever go away.

If you dislike the attitude on the private school threads, wait until you are all on the HE Oxbridge applicant threads in a few year's time. Parents claiming that their little darlings are being deprived of their rightful places by undeserving state school offer holders, wild rumours that offers have been made to those only expected to get 3 Cs, private messages suggesting that offer holders will probably fit in after a couple of years if they hide their roots. Believe me, all the nasty posts on the private school threads are nothing once you get to the jealousy and envy exhibited there.

😳

wowzers

Im not sure my daughter would say she has an advantage from money - state education cant meet her needs so she has no choice but to go PS or HS. What goes into school financially comes out of other areas of life so whilst some state kids have ski holidays and Disney trips she has school. Dont get me wrong- thats out choice - but thats the issue, our choice as parents is being taxed and for me that will never be ok. We can live without holidays or a smart car or a fancy wardrobe but we cant live without freedom of choice and as a parent I will never stand by silently and watch my daughter penalised in a world that penalises SEND kids already. The part of the argument I get triggered by is the nasty vitriol celebrating schools closing and children being displaced, which I find rarely comes from other parents but from a different generation who have either not had to watch their child struggle or had no support when they did. Either way - its not on.