To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

Are you on glue?

I can't believe that you cannot see these places for what they are - networks for the rich, entitled and privileged to protect their own selfish interests and perpetuate inequality. They have no place in a modern society.

So now only the generational wealthy will be in these schools. The really rich. No the middle classes who may have done well or got good careers. They will be more elite than ever. Yeah, that will help. Slow hand clap didn’t set this policy to appeal to the strongest of thinkers did they?

So the Royal Ballet Junior School, Chets Music School, the schools like Bruen Abbey that support severely dyslexic kids...

This is such a funny post. So you think private schools shouldn't be for the super-elite, because that's unfair and promotes inequality. And you don't think that everyone should go to state schools. You think that private schools should be just elite enough to fit your kids in with the special ones and the current situation promotes just the right amount of equality.

Funny that... 🤔

So that is unfair, but the fact that most people already can't afford private school isn't unfair? Are you under the impression that only middle class people work hard to provide for their children?

My children don’t go to private school. I know a divisive policy when I see one. Designed to attract the lowest common denominator of critical thinking.

Quite the fabrication you’ve made there. Not exactly a shock.

Projection much? If you can remove that chip for long enough - show me where I said that? Oh no, I didn’t.

I mean, having tried logical debate, I think the best response I can give to you at p36 of the thread, is yes, you're quite right, and my children absolutely love their elitist rich school - they're soooo lucky!

@Cazbo55 god. It’s a sorry state of affairs when a good education is perceived in this way. These schools aren’t a ‘network for the rich.’ The rich don’t actually need a bloody network. It’s just nice to have a decent education

Everyone deserves a great education. If you can't afford a private education then you can't afford it.

I am actually going to delete my account now because this thread is getting out of hand and it's making me so angry.

Bridget Phillipson has caused all this hatred towards private schools with her ill advised tweets which spew hate, discrimination and false information.towards children. No one cared before, look at all the posts on here and on Twitter about private schools charitable status before labour got in there are none at all.

We are all fighting on threads over other peoples business and money and she has caused this and is sitting back and laughing at us all.

Pay your taxes and don’t whine about it in multiple threads. People who are trying to pay their utility bills are not likely to feel a great deal of sympathy for those who are “making sacrifices” such as missing out in a holiday to avoid an education which 93% of the population have.

As far as I can see, she wrote one tweet at 8.15 pm, criticising the Tories' record on education.

The replies were pretty much the same as on here, all about the 'politics of envy'.

People on here aren't starting threads to say how delighted they are about the decision to charge VAT on privite education. The tweets that upset you are in response to the many threads started by people complaining about how unfair and unjust this policy is.

We are constantly being told that Mumsnet is for robust debate and if you can't take criticism, don't post, particularly on AIBU where this thread started. Most of the pile ons that I have seen where the OP gets upset and leaves are about something in the OP's personal life which doesn't affect other posters at all but they are brutal. There are such double standards on here.

@Umbop4 "Bridget Phillipson on a tweet rampage again.
always late at night probably after a wine or 2 !"

Could you link, please? I can't find it.

Of course you can buy privilege in state schools, @thepariscrimefiles. Buying a house in the expensive catchment of high performing state schools is exactly that, which is precisely what families displaced from independent schools will do, to the disadvantage of those who will be edged out.

The previous Labour government reconciled itself to the existence of private health services because these reduce pressure on the NHS. Private patients are using privilege to buy better/faster treatment that most cannot afford. Isn't there a moral equivalence? If the existence of a private health sector is a public good, why not education

That is true, but private health care is taxes.

If provided through your employer it is seen as a taxable benefit. If you pay the premiums yourself you pay 12% IPT.

Also Bupa et al are not granted charitable status.

So private health care is seen as a luxury and taxed accordingly.

12% rather than 20%? That would be a start....

Private health care fees are not subject to VAT. IPT is on the insurance and obviously is no insurance for private school. A lot if people do actually just pay medical fees without having insurance.

Yes I don't think you'll get much sympathy on here...this is probably the ONLY Labour policy the vast majority of people support (even those like me who didn't vote for them and think they are generally crap). I wish they were removing charitable status too because THAT is ridiculous! They are not charities. Why should they have that status and claim gift aid on donations.

A lot of private schools don't have charitable status and the ones that do, if it's removed, won't have to carry on with the things they currently do like opening their facilities to state schools.

Anyway, it's none of your business. Private schools don't cost the tax payer anything so you should have no interest in having a view on whether they pay VAT or not. Anyone who is on this thread who don't have kids in private school and who are showing excessive interest in the choices other people make for their children are peculiar.

Setting fire to your house to make use of the fire service your taxes fund is the wrong analogy.

Here's a more accurate one:

Imagine that you had installed a smoke-activated, fire-preventing sprinkler system in your house - bought at your own expense, out of taxed income. As well as paying taxes to fund the fire service (which you're fine with).

And that worldwide nobody puts VAT on sprinkler systems, because sprinklers reduce fires, which is good for everyone.

But now some people have decided that you should pay VAT on the sprinkler system.

You point out that you're reducing the load on the fire service (which you still pay for, exactly the same as everyone else), and that putting VAT on sprinklers means that some people now won't be able to afford them - which will mean the fire-fighters (who are already stretched) will have to put out more fires. Those fires will cost the UK more that the VAT on sprinklers will raise. Nobody worldwide puts VAT on sprinklers, for exactly that reason.

Is that selfish? Or is that just pointing out the fucking obvious, with the intention of preventing a completely stupid policy?

But then people get cross and say "we don't care if this means the fire fighters will be less available to put out fires in our own houses. It's unfair that you don't suffer fires (because of the sprinklers you paid for). We'd rather our houses burnt down more often - because the fire fighters are now too busy - so long as you get the same number of fires as us. "

It would surely be unreasonable to expect you to be OK with that. You'd more likely say 'Well fuck you, you bloody idiots'. Even more so if that spiteful stupidity is aimed at your children.

And then someone might point out that some people have sprinklers because they're disabled, and so it's harder for them to get out of a burning house. You're not in that situation yourself, but can empathise with it.

But the same nasty, spiteful people say they don't care. That if the person is so disabled that they can't get out of the burning house at all, then the government should pay for the sprinkler system (when in reality we all know that the government fights that with everything they've got, for years) and everyone else should just struggle their way out, even though it's much harder for them.

Who exactly are the selfish ones here? I don't think it's the people with sprinklers.