To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

What do you mean by "us mugs"? You said upthread you have a child in a state school, do you also have children at a private school? Because if you don't, then you are not one of those private school "mugs" anyway, and are presumably using tax payer money to fund your child's state place.

Did you go to a private school op?

Ahh deflection great strategy!! I don’t need to answer your question, I have no views on the vat as it doesn’t impact me, I tend not to fret over irrelevant stuff. Yet you still cannot answer a simple question. It makes total sense but I’ll simplify it down for you.

In your other posts you state private school offers a better education, you also go on to say it isn’t about grades. So I’ll try one last time, in your mind what about private school offers a better education. I’m really hoping you didn’t have one as if you did your parents may possibly have wasted their money.

State boarding schools - parents pay the boarding fee, not the education fee. When I was at one, the vast majority of boarders were from Forces families and the government was paying the boarding fee.

There's a state boarding grammar very near us - I wondered who sent their kids there for the boarding element. Were the non military families just families who might otherwise have used private boarding do you think?

To be honest do I really care about your child NO
Do I care about anyone's child NO
Do you care about my child NO

wow! What kind of fucked up society do you want us all to live in - when we don’t care about other people’s children

@chickennoodless but do you care about my child and how well he does at school ?

@chickennoodless you know exactly what @Weewaa means. If you are not putting your own child first then nobody else will. And as a parent that’s exactly what you should be doing and the fact people don’t is a large reason why there are so many issues in the state sector.

So what does putting your own child first look like in the state sector? You can't buy privilege in state schools so how does this work?

I want all children to do well at school as a well educated society is more successful with far fewer social problems.

No they shouldn't, they should pay a bit less. Same as childless people.

Why do you @ me?

Secondary modern will not work well in this country, for good reasons, rather than bad.

People care less about academic performances in this country in general than others, because of the very well social welfare system (even now when the country is broke), as well as fair pay for low skilled workers.

So what’s needed is not to deprive the kids good at and enjoy academics from an inspiring grammar or private.

What’s needed is a streamed system, to technical related colleges that will have a direct and secure job outcome. People who are more able in other areas can thrive, feeling self-worth and value, rather than feeling incompetent amongst at least half of class who are better than them.

Society should collectively value all different types of jobs equally. Think about all the supermarket workers, bus drivers, tube workers, of course NHS and teachers etc, that still putting themselves out there whilst others hide at home during pandemic.

To be fair, the fact is UK is not doing bad at all, from monetary point of view in terms of jobs. But the school system can be improved.

Everyone deserve to have a suitable place that they feel belong and valued, regardless of ability. Some dont have the same academic ability, doesn’t mean they are less worthy. The society needs to create a pathway of hope, and ladder to progress up, for everyone.

The conversations on these treads are, unfortunately, all focusing on how evil people can afford private schools are, no matter how much sacrifice they have made, because it’s their choice. Totally mean spirited. It is not other people’s fault that some children are suffering. Attacking others will not make the sufferers better.

Would anyone teach your kids to say sorry to whoever punch them in their face? No, right? Then why many posters expecting private school parents and children should just suck it up all of the unkindness from people?

I probably fell into that group. Parents were rural GPs working very long hours plus weekends, plus there were 4 of us, so private boarding not remotely affordable. It did give us a more balanced life and extra curricular on-site.

Other non-military parents were working overseas in remote bits of Africa, or just had the kinds of jobs where it worked better to have kids boarding in term-time and work like crazy and then dial it back in the holidays (on same schedule as private schools so long).

Interesting - thanks for the insight!

Of course you can.

You are very selective about which state schools you apply to and target aptitude test or grammar stream schools.

You then do State Plus - so add on extra music,
access to extras - theatre visits, lectures, masterclasses (just sent DD to the Globe’s GCSE Macbeth workshop).

Tutoring - huge industry out there catering for that. It’s just quite expensive. Most people I know are tutoring in at least one subject (not just at DDs school - across the board)

@thepariscrimefiles I would say I do this.

We are not wealthy by any means. I work but earn nothing like what I would if I had not given up my career to leave London.

We don't pay school fees and DS does not have a tutor. He did for 10 months before his 11+ for 45 minutes a week.

But we always read to them, spent time with them, visited museums. DS2 is doing GSCEs now and we have been to see Macbeth and have tickets to Inspector Calls. We are contemplating a mini break to the country whose language he has chosen.

He plays sport and I drive him to training.

That's where most of my money and time goes and I'm happy with that.

This is what makes the difference as much as school, and why it's deeply offensive to claim that only PS parents prioritise their children's education.

Fuck, I'm going to set fire to my house today, I'm going to get my monies worth from paying for the fire brigade!

So, people who are complaining about paying vat on school fees are inherently selfish. They only care about themselves, clearly proved by not wanting to pay their share. I pay vat to my decorator, my mechanic etc they are doing a service, I pay vat.

If all of our children have a better education, then we collectively do better, we all benefit from a well rounded balanced education.

I care about everyone’s children and how well they do at school.

If I fell ill and needed a life saving operation - that would be performed by a surgeon who would have done extremely well at school!

thats just one example I can think of many others.

Exactly. Everyone benefits from all children having a good education, children who didn’t go to private schools become doctors, teachers, plumbers, lawyers - all jobs EVERYONE benefits from. That is why your tax goes towards state education regardless of whether your own children use it or indeed if you have no children at all. I wish people who use private education would stop saying they pay twice for education. It’s insufferable, selfish, privileged nonsense.

@CreateUserNames that is all well and good.

The problem is with deciding that for children at 11, and the lack of political will for that to happen.

If there were more PS children in the state system there would be more of these options. At the moment, the wealthy who don't pass the 11+ just go private and leave the rest to it.

Surely you must understand that for the majority of families, there are no amount of cuts to their spending that they could make, to be able to afford private school? I’m sure this is the case for a small minority of people - a choice of whether to sacrifice these luxuries or not, but for the vast majority this simply isn’t the case. After bills and food (none of which are luxuries), there is not enough money left to pay thousands of pounds in school fees.
The narrative that most people could afford to send their children to private school if they were simply willing to make sacrifices but they’re too selfish to do so, only serves to make those using the private sector feel better. That they are somehow more virtuous and care more about their children’s education. I can assure you this is not the case.

I was a teacher and a single parent. No amount of scrimping would have allowed me to pay my entire salary for private school. It was hard enough paying the mortgage at 15% interest in the 80s. My daughter had a good state school education.

“If there were more PS children in the state system there would be more of these options. At the moment, the wealthy who don't pass the 11+ just go private and leave the rest to it.”

I wish this is true, but is just baseless pipe dream. PS parents who have to leave because of VAT rise have the least power and voice in the society. The wealthy, won’t be touch at all.

I'm disappointed that the government didn't legislate these evil places out of existence. Most people in the country agree.

"evil places"
They are schools