To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

@ichifanny vat from fees isn’t going to fix the state sector though. So potentially you’ll have even more kids failed. Great result!

@geeenuoe im really not sure what else you’re expecting from your thread. It’s clear that some people agree with you based on their own circumstances and some don’t. Yet you want to force your views and opinions on all and can’t just sit back and observe the comments that not everyone agrees with you. That’s ok, not everyone has to agree, but it’s like your only view is it’s not fair, instead of understanding what others are saying and why. Like others have said ultimately you have a choice either save a bit more and go ahead with your initial plans or choose to put your child in state school.

also I’m curious, you repeat that private school gives a better education, what are you using as your benchmark for this opinion (not sure it is a fact) as I’ve not seen referenced evidence this is accurate. You even mentioned this doesn’t directly equate to grades, so what does ‘better’ actually mean to you? Maybe articulating that would help others understand what you feel you’re getting for the choice of private school vs state.

This thread goes on and on and will never be over
Facts!
Its up to the parents which school children go to

Don't expect anyone to apologise for doing well in school or in business. Life is not like that.
That is why we have skilled and unskilled workers. Lots of unskilled workers also have huge multi national companies.

People can spend their money however they want.

Stop blaming schools for bad education and lack of government funding, it's down to you as a parent to teach your children along side the teachers. Teachers can only do so much, it's your job as a parent to help your children with school work. This also goes for private schools.

People choose to privately educate for all sorts of reasons and mostly it's not down to wealth.

You are allowed in this world to better yourself and no one has to ask permission from anyone to do that.

unfortunately Bridget Phillipson likes to cause trouble with her ill advised tweets

She has broad shoulders, double salaried household over £300,000 huge house and two children using state education when she has a large enough household income to free up spaces by using private education

Starmers school is a 150 yard catchment from his 2 million pound house

If you want equal rights in education for all children why are the government still funding 134 state grammar schools with entrance exams and 33 state funded boarding schools
Do you not think every child should be in one of these institutions? You pay the same tax so why is your child in the local primary and not having an elite state education playing sport and extra curricular activities
This should infuriate you more than people paying 20 grand a year for education.

These are not the old labour politicians who are working class
They are champagne socialists who don't care about any of us rich or poor !

Honestly….you sound like the preacher of private schools! 🤣
you seem to think all state schools are slums that fail children and parents who send their kids there are selfish bastards who won’t give up fancy houses and cars 😩 it’s so delusional

Bridget and Keir (your most hated I admit) both attended state schools and both (god forbid you argue this point) are highly successful …. Maybe it will calm your nerves about your little darlings mixing with the riff raff ☺️

@chickennoodless the entire premise for charging fee paying parents VAT is because state schools apparently aren’t up to scratch. Are you even sure yourself of what you mean, which is it?

@Weewaa well said and sums the whole situation up.

@slowlygoingcrazyhelp i am responding to posts. That includes my views and opinions.

If you don’t think private school is better then what on earth is all this vat about? Surely us mugs are hard done by enough if we are paying 30k a year on something that isn’t better? I thought you wanted the vat to make education equal for all though? In which case you must think private schools are better? Which is it? Do you even have a consistent view that matches why you want vat for state schools?

Exactly this!

Keir Starmer went to a Grammar School which became private during his time as a student. You could argue that it was a state school for the first few years but it wasn't by the time he left. There are now very few state Grammar Schools left in the country so it's hardly relevant to compare his state education with what children have access to in most counties now.

Bridget Phillipson did not go to a state school, she went to a Catholic school.

But you’re not paying it? You’ve already said it’s a decision you’re considering. I’m indifferent about the VAT as it doesn’t impact me, and I didn’t vote as don’t have any faith in any of the political parties. I have t given any views about whether I agree or disagree with it so you may be confusing me with another poster.

You are also selectively answering questions so I’ll ask mine again: what does better actually mean to you if it’s not grades, and what are you using as your reference or evidence or is it just perceived as being better. (Your words not mine)

@chickennoodless actually it's bitter parents like you that they don't want to mix with

Bridget Phillipson is definitely working class. She was brought up by a single mother in a council house on free school meals. She was state educated and still managed to get to Oxford.

Keir Starmer went to a state grammar school on a scholarship which changed to a fee paying school while he was there. His parents didn't have to pay fees. I would say his parents were either upper working class or lower middle class. None of his siblings went on to higher education.

When more affluent people support Labour they are champagne socialists and when poorer people do, it's just the politics of envy.

@CreateUserNames

My children did pass to go to the local state funded grammar school. It's great. They get to be taught in well behaved classes with good resources and high expectations.

You ask why can't everyone have that? Because that's the bloody point of them. They cream off the top 20% in the area and the rest go to secondary moderns. Some are great, others less so.

Everyone is in favour of grammars but noone argues for more secondary moderns.

The grammar system is shit for the bright kids who don't quite make the cut.

To be honest do I really care about your child NO
Do I care about anyone's child NO
Do you care about my child NO

All I care about is my child getting 3 top grade A levels and that should also be your priority as a parent

I went to a state school and lived in a council house and I was smart but I didn't have the backing of my parents to guide me so I failed miserably.

Guide your children and work in tandem with the teachers they will do well in any school

People pay tax for things they don’t use all the time. What about childless people, they still pay tax for ‘everyone else’s kids’? I’ve never used the fire service but my tax still pays for them. Thank god we live in a society where most people don’t mind paying for things for the benefit of others, even if they don’t use it themselves. Should people who pay for private healthcare not have to pay for the NHS?

@outofofficeagain double standards !

We pay taxes to live in a society. We're paying for everyone's education so that we can live in a well educated society with teachers, paramedics, social workers, nurses, doctors and and rest of the workforce.

Many people have forgotten that and think it's just about what's in it for them.

@Weewaa no double standards. If they are then I don't feel bad about them.

This is the education system in our town. My kids were bright. I made the best decision for them. That's my job.

But can I argue it's the best system for everyone? No.

Can I claim other children don't suffer as a result? No.

I'm aware of our privilege.

"Average family"

🙄

If the government announced they were ending grammar schools tomorrow I wouldn't undertake the mental gymnastics required to justify keeping them.

That's the thing that puzzles me most of all too. Those defending this policy really ought to make their mind up whether state schools are excellent - in which case private schools don't give an advantage therefore don't need to be taxed as so-called "luxuries".

@outofofficeagain Don't apologise I would do exactly the same thing and that's why son goes private
I am trying to make a point to all the haters it's about choice and government double standards.

I pay my bills and so do you so no one has any say in what we do.
I don't care about your child and you don't care about mine our job is to parent and teach our own children.

I'm not talking about individual parents somehow fixing individual schools, I'm talking about what would happen if the people with the most wealth and power turned their attention and resources to solving problems that at the moment they simply don't need to care about because those problems don't affect them. I don't mean people like you or me, ordinary private school parents or ex-pupils, I mean people with the most power.

I also said earlier that I don't think it should be mandated and in my last post that I don't think it will ever happen - but I would still be interested in knowing what would happen if it did, hypothetically, in a way that truly could not be opted out of.

I suspect that quite a lot of new solutions would come up surprisingly quickly, because suddenly we'd have a lot more people with power, money, big business and tech contacts looking at state education as something that needs improving now - people with money to invest in exploring new ideas, trying out solutions, fast-tracking software, you name it. Rich philanthropists do already do this a bit, but even then they don't have the same personal investment in it as if they were using the infrastructure directly themselves.

Once again, I'm not suggesting private schools should be abolished to make everyone use the same schools - I don't think that's possible now (too many online/home schooling ways for the very rich to still avoid mixing with the hoi polloi) - but I think it would be very interesting if it did happen, and I think other ways to increase social cohesion should be explored as a general thing.

However great the sense of relief you'll feel when your daughter is safely at a private school with people who 'share your values', you'll never be able to protect her from spending large amounts of the rest of her life mixing with people from state schools. Lots of those people will also share your values, some won't. It's in yours and your daughter's interests for the population as a whole to be as well educated, well fed, and healthy as possible. You can write off every demand for us all to pull together a bit, and generally work towards making that come to pass, as just a load of undeserving people trying to rip you off for your tax, but the fact is it benefits you too.

@speedsculler absolutely. This x1000

@slowlygoingcrazyhelp i’ll answer when you answer my question? Your posts make no sense.