To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

Because it is in their own interest for nurses, teachers, police, employees for their own business and endless other people who make society work to be educated.

Is it not the principle, taxing education should be off limits. Nowhere in the western world taxes any form of education, it's really not a good look for the UK. And is it the thin end of the wedge? Vat on night classes, universities, places that help children catch up when they are falling behind, music lessons, dancing, sports training, or are all educational activities outside state schools, the province of the rich so fair game.

That’s kind of what I mean though. If state schools were given a different framework then many children would benefit, but then the disruptive bullies etc. would potentially lose all opportunity. It’s a crap balance and I would hate to be in either camp.

I disagree with the imposition of VAT on education. But the OP’s statement that ‘You don’t value education as much as those paying for it and that’s fine’ is deeply misguided and offensive. Many, many people with children in the state sector care deeply about their children’s education. They read with them, help them with homework, attend parents’ evenings, support the school and donate when funds are requested, volunteer at the school and do all they can to support their children.

Where private school fees were once affordable for the middle class with some cutbacks, my generation was hit with student debt, slammed by the 2008 financial crisis, slammed by house prices, slammed by record breaking nursery fees (not as subsidised as today), slammed with less generous maternity and paternity packages, slammed with the highest level of taxation since wartime, and is slammed with the cost of living and inflation. The VAT on top is the icing on the cake for the already inflated private school fees. If I am unable to afford private school fees without the risk of debt or jeopardising financial security, that doesn’t mean my children’s education is not a priority. It’s just that there are only so many other hits along the way. I say this as a gen x.

Yes it is very offensive. The op said she thinks the state sector is appalling. I have to say my DD is currently at a state secondary that is absolutely fantastic...she gets a good education and the facilities and opportunities she has had have been great. And no, we haven't had to buy in an expensive catchment. We live in London...everywhere is expensive anyway. I don't believe any of the private schools near me would be vastly better than where she's at. The idea that the parents at my DC's school don't care is just ridiculous.

I think your mentality is bizarre OP, I will preface this by saying that I am indifferent to VAT on school fees, I think those who are just scraping by should be able to liaise with the school to get some help, as I think it's really unfair to the kids to yank them out of a school they are happy and settled in.

But when you said it's true that every kid gets an abroad holiday because the 17 kids in your DDs private school class all went at least once is very short sighted. There are kids in state schools that don't even get a UK holiday, they are in holiday clubs/childcare whilst their parents work full time just to be able to afford the essential bills.

'You don’t value education as much as those paying for it and that’s fine. But…Just own it.'

What an absolutely offensive and untrue statement. You are insulting 91% of parents who educate their children in state schools.

I think even if state schools received enough funding to replicate the smaller class sizes and better facilities/equipment in private schools and if their GCSE and A level results were as good as in private school, lots of parents would still choose private education so that their children would only mix with upper-middle class and upper class children. They value social connections and mixing with 'People LIke Us' even more than they value education.

@thepariscrimefiles yes- I think there is a huge amount of snobbery in the OP’s post. That’s fine but… just own it.

For the same reason my taxes go to pay for hip replacements when I have private healthcare.

(I dont, but its a a similar vein)

A better analogy would be if you went to have a private hip operation (circa £15k) and they said no that'll be £18k please as you need to pay VAT on that to fund someone else's hip operation.

No not really - in that case i would be saying "ohh I wasnt quoted the full price, inc vat? - ok then"

The more I read your posts OP, the more I think you're on a wind up!!!

The VAT is payable because the private schools are losing their charitable status. A lot of people agree with that decision given the landslide result of the election. It’s the will of the British people

This is the sort of thing that I think completely new solutions would be found for fairly quickly if the children of the truly wealthy and powerful were all using the same schools and infrastructure as the rest of the population (I'm not really talking about the OP or private school parents in general here but the people right at the top end of money and power). It won't ever happen, but I bet some new solutions would be found if it did.

I had to go back and reread all the ops posts...I assumed her DC were in private school from what she was saying! This is crazy. Op .. surely if you truly cared about education you'd manage it. Afteral I've worked out if I moved to a studio flat and lived off the cheapest bread, I could just about manage it. I'm sure you can too

I don't really know why you think you're paying for state education 3 times while someone who uses state education is only paying once.

In general we pay taxes in two different ways: on our income and on our transactions. It looks like private school parents are going to have to pay VAT on school fees (a transaction). In the meantime, @comedycook chooses not to pay school fees but to spend her money on other things. Many of these things she will pay tax on; if she buys a car or a holiday (things which you feel are profligate) she'll pay VAT on them. Is she paying tax 3 times over on them while you only pay once?

She could stop the £300 a month on tutoring and maybe read with her DD instead. It can't be too hard to keep a 7 year old on track if you are an involved parent (SEN excepted).
£300 a month should cover the VAT.

Bit of a difference life and death with health there's no choice if you have serious health issues. It's choice for private education fees,

Emptyandsad... The way you jump from assumption to assumption is beyond the realms of possibility. You sound like you're writing a last minute essay on the topic and don't know what to say so you're just inventing stuff at 4am.
"The arrival in state school of more pupils with ambition will, in itself, raise standards and their social and employment goals will be shared with their fellow students"
OK, this is possible, but kids learn from their parents, rather than someone who sits next to them in French for 4 periods a week.

Then you start going really off-piste to some fantasy world, like they've opened a bloody wardrobe door to educational Narnia, or perhaps one of the posh kids gives them some acid, I'm not sure:
"Slowly a whole new world of potential will open up to children who currently see a limited range of possibilities; a new world that they currently see as only for 'rich people'."
only 7% percent of kids go to private school. only a small percentage of this 7% will have to leave. Why are you putting so much responsibility on these families to change mentalities of state school families? They are already kids and families like this in state schools and you're not putting this responsibility on them. I have kids at both state and private (their choice). There are people with positive and negative mentalities in both.

Then you somehow transplant the whole thing to society as a whole:
"Society is happier when there is a smaller gap between rich and poor and social mobility is a reality, so everyone can have hope"
A few ex-private school kids going to their local comprehensive school is not going to magically transform society, nor is it going to lessen the gap between rich and poor, or give people hope.

There are plenty of ways to lessen the gap between rich and poor that are more readily effective that this.

You are making the incorrect assumption people voted Labour for this reason only, and therefore everyone is passionately in favour of it. I voted labour although I disagree with the VAT on private school stance. I voted labour for many many other reasons, knowing that I have to accept the VAT on school fees even though I don't agree with it. My options are to find more money (not possible), change jobs (maybe possible) or move my son out of private school. I voted Labour completely aware of this, and my responsibility to come up with a plan.

That is totally incorrect. There is no change to the charitable status of the schools.

I’m also not sure that 18% of the adult population constitutes “the will of the people” particularly as some of the 18% appear to have no idea what they were voting for.

We had ‘the will of the British people’ rammed down our throats many times during the last government. It works both ways. It was a free and fair election that voted Labour in

No everyone should have access to a ‘ great’ education. Even people who can’t make it work to pay 20k a year which is the majority of people .

@speedsculler what is it you would expect from these people ‘right at the top.’ Because often they have their kids boarding and don’t have much to do with the schools directly other than funding it. What is that you expect these parents to do that other parents can’t or shouldn’t have to do for their own children? I’m not being funny, I just don’t understand. Do you think they would come into reception and start demanding proper pens and pencils, for example? Because all that would happen is they would give their own child proper pens and pencils. Similarly, if their child wasn’t learning much due to disruption in classes, they’d pay for a private tutor. What are you hoping for by forcing parents to put their child into an education system that often fails many children?