To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

@planAplanB so are state schools good or aren’t they? You’re saying they are, so why the need to take from people already paying twice for education?

The issue of SEN and the lack of adequate state provision is a real one.

This is, of course, a complex and difficult problem. Government should beware the rule of unintended consequences. The news in the Guardian today of doubts about the timetable for the introduction of VAT shows that the government is experiencing the difficulties always encountered when policy meets reality. It will be a real test of their will and their competence

The government are planning to use the extra VAT money to help state education.

@Emptyandsad rather than using my child to ensure another child can behave, how about we hold all parents responsible for their OWN kid’s behaviour and dedication to school work? Why isn’t that the focus, as it’s certainly the problem, as you identify.

And where would we attain these teachers for more classes? There are not enough teachers coming through. In addition, I know 2025 is a bumper year due to ‘covid babies’. So, your facts might be limited to London.

You also ignore, the addition cost on the government to fund those children moving from private to state and the likelihood of people relocating to access ‘outstanding’ state schools, increasing house prices and pushing young local families out.

@Emmanuelll part of the reason people choose private is for that reason… so that like minded parents with kids who want to succeed will mix with their own kids. As someone said upthread… apparently now such parents are expected to influence’ the state sector kids?!

Yeah...no! Plenty of high achievers send their kids to state schools because it's what they believe in.

Two of my friends have children who went straight through state school and received mostly 9s and a few 8s

I don't think this poster is bitter or jealous. They are pointing out that you only have sympathy and compassion for already privileged parents and children who can currently afford to privately educate their children but may struggle when VAT is added to fees.

Families on low incomes who struggle to feed their children and heat their homes were often told to get better jobs or cut down on their spending (it is often more expensive to be poor). There are worst things than having to leave a private school.

@Emmanuelll perhsps you can explain to that poster then that you don’t need private school parents to influence state school kids?

Providing tax relief at point of need makes absolute sense.

I’ve no idea why you would equate that to potential tax relief where there was no point of need.

If you are at a point where you need a 100k state service whether that be education, health or anything else, it makes sense for the state to give you a sum of money if you agree not to use the state service and sort things out privately.

Plenty of countries do this as it eases the burden on taxpayers.

Where education is concerned some countries give income tax relief and others provide a fixed sum that is below the amount the state has set aside to fund your state school place.

Nice idea but it's bollocks of course, as the wealthy parents will still live in or move to the areas with the best schools, most affluent areas etc, creating even more of a two tier system among state schools. Wealthy parents generally aren't interested in bringing the standard of schools nationwide up, only the one their DC is at.

Two primary schools near me, one is the desired choice among middle class parents, the other not but still a good school. The first one offers brilliant enrichment, SEN tutoring, forest school, free trips, enhanced creative offer, private sports coaches, wellbeing services and spaces etc etc etc. All paid for by PTA thanks to affluent parents. They're also happy to expel or say goodbye to any "tricky" kids as they know they'll fill any spaces and feel zero obligation to attempt to support struggling children in the community.

I suppose eventually the curriculum might change with enough pressure, but I'm not sure that's what people with influence are really interested in changing.

House prices in the catchment of the good secondaries are approx £200k more than an equivalent house a few streets away.

No, because they didn't produce any future tax payers and are contributing to the massive economic disaster of aging populations. Encouraging people to have less babies by offering tax relief to child-free people is the political equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot.

I've been to and used private schools and I don't think private school parents are evil or should be punished. I also think that this new policy probably ought to have some kind of exceptions for specialist SEND schools, and not have started mid year.

That said, these threads are hugely tone deaf. A cut-off point has always existed. People who were not at all bothered about the cut-off point when they were just the right side of it seem now to be furious about it, now that they're the wrong side of it.

The implication is that only now are caring, hard-working, education-valuing scrimpers and savers being prevented from using private schools. But a particular income band of caring, hard-working, education-valuing scrimpers and savers has always been prevented from using private schools - but those were people who earned a fraction less than most of the people who start these threads, and apparently therefore that was fine.

This 100%

Nope, they send their children overseas to top private schools.

The SEN is an interesting one. I've worked in state and private schools. Many parents of children in private schools (and some in state schools) pay thousands of pounds for a diagnosis. As they're paying, they often get the 'diagnosis' they want.
In one private secondary school I worked in about 85% of the students had a 'diagnosis'. This was used to get extra time in external exams etc.
The question is: how many of these children would be given a diagnosis of a SEN, if they were diagnosed via the NHS?
The threat of many SEN diagnosed privately educated children turning to state school (and how will state school cope) may not be ASD/ADHD etc at all.
State school teachers (and I'm sure many private school teachers) use adaptive teaching. Great teaching for children with SEN is great teaching for all children.
Therefore, you could argue that the state system will manage fine with the extra children.

But thousands of children are achieving top grades in their GCSEs and a-levels without having gone to private school so surely this proves they are getting a decent education...?
Teachers in state schools are well trained professionals, often a specialist in their subject. Can you say the same for private schools...? I think not!

Oh how embarrassing!!!!! Hahaha

@planAplanB so why do you want to take money from those already wasting it on fees when your state system is all good?

You cannot be serious?! If your child needs that much tutoring aged 7, I am not sure they’re highly academic. Unless they have SEND and you’re included speech therapy and OT etc.

You are a massive hypocrite by using the state system and slagging it off.

It won't ever happen (and I'm not sure it should be mandated), but it would be so interesting to see what would happen if all the parents with the most money and power did suddenly have to use the same schools and hospitals as everyone else. There's a huge difference between caring in an abstract way about everyone having access to a good education or good hospitals, and caring directly, viscerally, about whether or not the dodgy concrete has all been taken out of the nearest secondary school, because your child will be there in a few weeks.

I'm certain all sorts of creative new ways would be found to solve problems that the most powerful and wealthy people in the country have never thought were worth solving, because their kids are nowhere near them. Who knows what entirely new outside the box solutions might come out of a lot of the people who currently have power in politics and business properly setting their minds to fix the issues rather than just opting out of them personally by spending money.

Ow just think of all that extra money they'll have by sending their kids to state school... they might even be able to squeeze in that third holiday or install a pool...!

People wouldn't choose to not have children for the tax relief lol.

@YOYOK did I say she was ‘highly academic?’

All children should be able to access a good education that meets their needs. Via the state system they cannot consistently do this. This is established. Therefore the argument that private is a luxury is void in these current circumstances. It would certainly be a luxury if the state sector was good across the board but it isn’t. Private is now a way for some parents to access a good education for their children where the alternative is a poor state education. By that definition it is not a luxury. Some people have the luxury that they can choose this route. Other people equally hard working, equally aspirational for their children don’t have this choice which is understandably upsetting. So the luxury isn’t the school it’s whether people even have a choice.
I have read many of these threads and the posts mainly stem from people wanting the best for their children whether they have the luxury of choice or not. Whatever side of the argument there is that common goal.
State education needs to improve. To achieve this, there will be tax added to private which may have some small benefit or may have no effect whatsoever. More parents won’t have the choice to use private because of the cost rising. A lot of upset for maybe a small improvement. 6500 teachers is less than 1 per school, and how long to train them?
What I would like to know is where is the rest of the plan for education, or, is this it???

All children deserve a good education. It shouldn't be something that can be bought. Lots of state schools provide an excellent education but the idea that private education is better is detrimental to those in the state sector. No one needs to be struggling to provide an education for their children and those who are, are definitely not the only parents who care. Many parents whose children are state educated care greatly about their education.