To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

I agree with you; grammar and spelling is important. Teachers should be proficient in both.

But governors are not teachers. They are (or should be) people with ideas and rigour and ambition. And people who communicate their ideas clearly (and have ideas and hopes) should not be ridiculed for trying to raise standards. There's nothing inconsistent or hypocritical about people who can't spell wanting higher standards of education. Pouring scorn on them is an attempt to discredit the content of their contribution because of their manner of that contribution. Listen to what they say (and argue against it by all means) not how they say it

If this goes through, there will be fewer excellently educated people. There will still be dedicated teachers/parents keeping the show on the road and some children will be well educated, but just not so many. Because the chance of any spared cash (which may well not be much once the extra spaces in state education have been found) going into actual education is slim.

They need to generate higher GDP/wealth, not make things more expensive - get people back to work. Reducing the number of excellently educated people will not achieve that.

@geeenuoe "Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already."

The people who are against VAT on private schools don't truly understand that for many people simply putting food on the table is a massive,massive struggle and it is crass in the extreme to talk about struggle and sacrifice in the context of paying school fees.

Well then, isn't it good that there are many many many excellently educated people in state schools!

Incorrect - we pay for private tutoring outside school.

@RaspberryRipple2 its ‘batshit’ to you so your kids, if you have any, will be in the state sector. Good for you.

And no, I don’t care about my child being in the state sector to gain an advantage for a university place. I am happy for her to come second place to those in state it means she can have a happy and decent all round education in a private school. That’s what we would be buying.

A lot of the children at my children’s school have parents who can’t afford food, heating, clothes or rent. I reserve my sympathy for them rather than those very few who might have to join us at a state school.

Wow what a load of rubbish.

Average earners in the UK pay far less tax than their European counterparts. Higher earners in the UK pay the highest rates of tax in Europe (per the institute for fiscal studies).

Perhaps we should copy European countries and make average earners pay more tax and stop clobbering the higher earners who already pay among the highest taxes in Europe.

How do you feel about that?

How do private school parents massively subsidise the state sector?

These are a mixture of published legal facts, research from the institute for fiscal studies and the office of budget responsibility.

You can call it rubbish but you would be factually incorrect.

If you don't like facts keep living in dream world. I'll stick with the real world.

This. Is a privilege and a luxury. There’s a perfectly fine free option that’s fit for everyone else. If you want to stretch yourselves and struggle to pay school fees more fool you.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow but those motivated, tutored children would be in classes with other students, who would all benefit.

Peer groups are vitally important in education settings and a higher proportion of kids who want to learn and have additional resources, the better everyone's education will be.

Also, you'll vote for the party, locally and nationally, who care about schools, because it will matter to you. School funding then moves up the political agenda.

I suspect this is because if you earn less than 65k a year in the UK you are being subsidised by someone earning over 65k.

Anyone earning less than 65k a year on average consumes government services which cost more to provide than the tax they pay into the system.

This

Ok fair enough.

@Emptyandsad wow!

So it’s the responsibility of 7% of parents to improve state schools?

sorry, what? Why aren’t the 93% of parents already doing this?

Because they pay taxes for education but don’t use it… are you honestly asking this question?

And as PP said; private school parents will be more likely be higher rate taxpayers to start with.

But is your daughter’s class representative of the country as a whole? Do you live in an affluent area? How many children have free school meals? Most primary school classes have 30 not 17. You need to base your opinion on more than just your own experience as it’s probably not how a large % of the country live.

@CurlewKate maybe. I guess it depends how much value (literal and otherwise) you put on education.

I sent my DC to private school for 4 years and was surprised that VAT wasn’t charged.

That’s an interesting point.

When I was at school people tried to get into the highly selective private schools and those who failed to obtain a place went to the grammars which were definitely seen as being an inferior option. The difference then was that private fees were far lower so the choice was much easier to make.

Nowadays of course the choice is very different as fees are 2 or 3 times higher in real terms.

I now live in an area with no grammars so everyone who can afford it still target the selective private schools which not surprisingly perform miles better than any of the local state schools.

In areas where there are still grammars are the private schools coming under far more pressure as there is a viable alternative that can save parents £100,000’s?

We absolutely should!

These are a mixture of published legal facts, research from the institute for fiscal studies and the office of budget responsibility.

Links please? How can you possibly know how much someone earns and how much they 'take' from the state?

Let's also reflect on how screwed you'd be, and everyone else if people flatly refused to do lower paid jobs.

@Happyher so bitter and jealous. You’re talking about a children in a school they may have to leave. Grow up.