To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

No that's how income tax works - which is how the funds ought to be raised.

You do realise that the poster you are replying to was not the poster who made the spelling mistake (effect instead of affect) and who said she was a Chair of Governors. If you are going to be snotty and rude, at least direct it to the correct poster.

I just don’t understand what private school parents are hoping to achieve with posts like these. Nobody cares about their plight and attempts to win people over are pointless. The majority of voters fully support the VAT policy.

Funny how all the posters who are so against private school, are the ones with posts full of SPAG errors

alot
priviledge
i
effect

spaces before full stops __.

there are millions of people in this country who couldn’t even scrape together a few grand a year if they tried, but are meant to be sympathetic to people ‘scraping’ together £20k. I think some people need to give their heads a wobble.
i also expect this scraping the money together people still live in much nicer neighbourhoods than a lot of the population, they could always downsize to a terrace in the middle of town.

Im in the ‘I don’t care camp’. If you can’t afford it you can’t afford it. Sorry. There’s an awful lot of us with a SEN child in state school with little option.
I was called a monster for not being concerned someone might have to move their child to a state school, I don’t think the poster was bothered that mine had to go to a SS.

I agree however this tax does the absolute opposite of that.

The majority of even the highest earning households still use state schools. If taxes are based on affordability then that is the sector who should be targeted.

This tax will mean some lower earning families paying additional tax to subsidies higher earning families who use state education resources. It should be the other way round if you’re looking for fairness.

Exactly- my DC are getting a good education actually because we're lucky to live near good state schools.
I get that the best state education still can't quite measure up to private. But why is it ok that only the richest children get the best education?
Every child should get a good education.
Maybe fewer families being able to afford private education will mean education improves for all because more money will go in to state education

Everyone here is arguing over the wrong question. The question really ought to be "what is preventing the British economy from growing as fast as e.g. the US so that we have more money to spend on public services and we don't have to resort to the politics of envy where everyone scrabbles about to redistribute the pie that has virtually been the same size since 2008?"

Maybe VAT is the right thing to do from a fairness perspective but perhaps it should be brought in in a few years time so people actually can plan their finances and current students are not penalised. Bringing it in mid year is just nasty.

However political capital ought to be spent on things that actually move the needle: building houses and roads and nuclear plants etc. This policy is a stupid distraction.

And THAT my friend iisnwjg the grammar system is reprehensible.

My mother went to a grammar. There was no 'tutoring' .. a huge mix of social class just based on academic ability on a level playing field. But still outrageous to separate the able :less able academically at the age of 10/11. !

Now it is a focussed academic education for those with deep enough pockets to get a tutor (around here) from aged 7/8. Subsidised by the state.

In my view much worse than private education. From a tax payer point of view.

And posters harping on about spelling errors or slagging off carers are doing themselves no favours.

Then they may need to have one holiday a year and watch their spending even more?

Maybe VAT is the right thing to do from a fairness perspective but perhaps it should be brought in in a few years time so people actually can plan their finances and current students are not penalised. Bringing it in mid year is just nasty.

This I agree with, bringing it in mid year was a mistake.

Grammar school applications are down.
www.theguardian.com/education/2024/oct/05/grammar-applications-drop-despite-claims-swamped-after-vat-private-school-fees

Most of us don’t think anything about it. Either reduce your spending on other luxuries or get a better job. That’s what the Tories told people who were struggling with the cost of living.

I believe strongly that all children need to know how to write clearly what they mean in order to express themselves properly. This involves being able to spell, use grammar and chose appropriate words. I don't think children can do this as well these days and I think it puts them at a disadvantage later in certain areas of life. I don't think schools (private or state) teach children as well as we used to be taught (looking at my own children's writing). I also think people involved in education need to be able to write properly and it is dreadful if teachers etc cant spell. We are discussing on this thread raising standards aren't we? Surely we want our children to be taught to the highest standards. That's my pushy middle class sharp elbowed talk by the way...the sort people on this thread suggest (for some reason) will raise standards in state schools. I don't think they will be welcomed.

.

Funny how all the posters who are in favour of private school are the ones who are bad mannered and rude.

I don't care. I couldn't afford private school at the time. I would have considered it if I could have afforded it. If folk can't afford the increase fees the kids go to state school. It isn't rocket science.

On average anyone with an income of less than 65k a year is subsidised by someone earning more than 65k. This because someone earning less than 65k on average consumes government services more costly than the tax they pay into the state.

Factually private school parents are highly likely to be subsidising state school parents but of course facts are irrelevant to a debate which shaped by emotion and ideology.

Indeed according to the institute for fiscal studies lower/average earners in the UK pay comparatively little tax compared to the lower/average earners in rest of Europe. Whilst higher earners in the UK pay comparatively the highest taxes most in the developed world. Perhaps it's time for average earners to pay more tax?

In Spain the 30% tax rate starts at around 20,000 euros, in Belgium the 40% tax band starts at 12,000 euros income. In Portugal it's 37% at 27,000 euros (23k GBP).

It seems like it's time for taxes to go up on average earners to pay for everything they want?

@thepariscrimefiles was just about to comment the same... shocking how some people are so bad mannered and entitled.

Do you "include the moderate socialist" who thinks people who disagree with him should be dead?

Better a SPAG error than talking about "scrimping and saving" and "a couple of holidays a year" on a site where some can barely afford to feed their children. That's scrimping and saving. Paying private school fees is choosing between luxuries.

Yes I did realise but thought that I would use the non-specific "you" rather than "one". Thanks for your help though.

@AboutVattime ex-grammar pupil here and my DC go to grammar because we live in a town which is fully grammar and secondary modern (as opposed to the super-selective ones).

You are right, there is an element of tutor inflation (it certainly didn't exist when I went) but it only goes so far.

There are children who have been tutored since year 3 and they still don't pass and the heavily tutored ones are all miserable when they get there.

Here, the private schools are full of wealthy students who didn't pass. Hardly anyone would turn down a grammar place to go private.

And I'm not in favour of them, even though I chose them for my children. They are getting a great education but it is at the expense of those in the secondary modern. I cannot justify it under any argument other than my child does well out of it.

But the private school parents claiming they'll just 'take up all the grammar places' isn't true.

Due to the addition of VAT, a proportion of privately educated children will end up going to state school. In addition, future children whose parents planned to send them privately will now go to state schools. That means, larger state school class sizes and more pressure on an already stretched eduction system. You may say, well more money will go towards state education from VAT. However, the government who currently pay £0 for privately educated children, will be spending £8k a year per child on those who move to state schools or whose parents decide not to send them. Therefore, the 20% VAT is likely to be swallowed by the additional costs of children moving across and children who would have been educated privately now following the state route. The ‘good’ state schools will attract more children, house prices will increase in those areas pricing many people (including local families) out. There will be different concerns, but it’s unlikely to be massively advantageous to anyone.

Competition can increase even with lower numbers taking the exam.

The required scores for entry have increased. I suspect fewer untutored kids are bothering to even take the exam now as they know their chances of gaining a place are getting progressively worse.