To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

My son spent time in private school years ago. No parents owned yachts but the majority did have great cars, high earning professional careers. In some cases fees were paid by grandparents. Very few were struggling

Yes, because if the State schools are shit and you can afford private school, your kids have an even bigger lifelong advantage over State pupils than if the State schools are good.

I guess the big panic for a lot of private school parents is they don’t know what their school will do if numbers fall. They probably don’t know how many parents are actually struggling (rather than just sounding off about it as they’ll have to have less fun stuff to pay for it, very different to just having to pull their child out of school).

schools have various options - they could try to lower fees to get more students in, possibly a good thing for parents who can easily afford the school, but then the question will be around what costs will be cut to allow for that. Same fear if fees stay the same but with fewer children paying them.

some schools might put fees up higher if they think the parents who are staying can afford it and will pay. A smaller number of parents paying more could balance the books.

or (as one school near me has done as numbers were falling already) they could lower the entrance requirements to increase the pool of parents who can afford it. This could be a negative if your reason for sending your child private school was based around academic excellence.

So these threads will continue as private parents are going to be stressed out trying to work out what’s going to happen, and even if they can afford the fees, will the balance tip that it’s no longer worth the money if they stop getting as much added value for all that money.

(and that’s before the baby bust works through with falling numbers in all school types!)

Will no-one think of the (state school and special needs) children?

It is a luxury though, other options are available

Not nonsense. HMRC..."VAT is charged on things like: goods and services (a service is anything other than supplying goods) hiring or loaning goods to someone. selling business assets." Private school is a service. If you don't like those facts how about this one....no one is forcing you to send your child to private school, there is an entirely free education available to your kids where no VAT is payable for you

The problem with this tax is it’s a crowd pleaser that is badly thought through and rushed. I say this as someone who is sending their children to a small local private prep despite the VAT increase.

hmrc can barely get vat registrations through in a timely manner as it is, let alone by January for however many schools.

It also makes zero difference to your Eton and Harrow type schools. The ultra rich won’t notice the extra fees. It affects the squeezed middle.

Also house prices near the good state schools are more expensive than those near worse schools. So people don’t like people paying fees for better education, but buying a better education by buying a house near a better school is ok?

Says who? Lots of very involved and invested parents at my school

So wealthy people dont care about schools or healthcare? Extrapolating from your logic rich people have no empathy or compassion, they are just greedy people out to screw everyone, they probably dont care about the environment of give to charity by your logic. It just utterly bizarre thinking. Its like you think its all a big conspiracy.

I dont think you live in the real world. Are you a communist or hard left socialist by any chance?

I know and understand but I don't care.

Maybe you would get a better response if you stopped whinging about it and pretending that you are doing something virtuous by sending kids private.

Well you used the analogy of not supporting charging additional VAT on Bentleys, even though you don't have a Bentley to prove that you aren't jealous like people who support the VAT policy on private schools.

A Bentley isn't the same as private education. Perhaps you can't grasp that.

Many of the non-pensioners facing that choice will be disabled. Yet Labour just permitted the energy price cap to rise 10%.

When essentials attract VAT, non-essentials should not escape VAT.

My politics is fairly moderate, I don't disagree with private schools like some on this thread.

But I think a lot of people just don't care about VAT being added to school fees... if you can afford school feels, you're generally MUCH better off than most of the population. Whether you THINK you're better off or not, is not what matters. You are.

It's tone deaf. You see some threads on here 'we're on 100k and just getting by...'.

I think if you work hard, earn good money, and are in the top % of earners, great. Send them to private school, don't expect others to care or feel sorry for you when you can't though.

You can afford it or you can’t. Simple

I’m sorry but that really shows how ignorant you are of private schools. They’re not all public schools, 99% of parents are absolutely not paying for social connections for their kids- in most private schools they’re going to school alongside the kids of teachers, nurses, doctors.

Correct, Finland isn’t a dense population and lower/middle tax payers contribute vastly more, benefits are also vastly less generous, these are the fundamental issues the UK faces. The amounts suggested the VAT will raise are totally insignificant to fix the issues state schools face. Labour knows this, it’s a desperate dog whistle policy, which is a great shame as it will not fix the inequity in education it seeks to address. They are exploring borrowing more money to increase public services spending, which is the likely reality of delivering its plans, but that would mean interest rates will go up and anyone who owns property will see mortgage rates rising again. There isn’t a perfect solution, everyone paying more is the likely and best outcome.

When someone has always been privileged, losing that privilege looks to them like oppression. Recognising this is a matter of observation, not political ideology.

And the people who pay for Eton etc really don’t need the school for connections 🤣🤯

*The ultra rich won’t notice the extra fees. It affects the squeezed middle.

Also house prices near the good state schools are more expensive than those near worse schools. So people don’t like people paying fees for better education, but buying a better education by buying a house near a better school is ok?*

The squeezed middle are not the ones sending their children to private school, that's the wealthy.

I don't like people buying better education by any means, but one thing at a time!

F me!!! I aspire to this level of honesty and non-nonsenstry! 🤣🤣🤣 Love it!!!

As to the rest ... I'm so bored of this discussion.

People need to understand private education is not compulsory for rich people 🤣🤣🤣 in the neighbourhood we have a lot of people that have bigger houses than mine and bigger cars than mine and their kids are in the local comprehensive school.

Then there is me living in a very average house, very average car, very average holiday a year and have kids in a private school.

It's often a question of priorities. To me my children spent 80% of their awake time at school. Not in the car, not in the house, not a holiday ... at school. So for me I have decided this is my priority.

Now, other people have other priorities and understand things differently and that's fine.

And if VAT makes things impossible for me then I will move my kids to another school. I won't cry over it. They won't cry over it. It's fine either way!

Stop with the stupid discussions. They won't make a change and they won't convince anyone shit.

By that definition then there should also be VAT on nurseries and universities.

That aside if your concentration had lasted a little longer you’d have seen the section that states that all education is exempt.

Again I’ll ask why do you think the entire world thinks differently on this matter? Are Labour better informed than the rest of the planet?

I am buying my son an education where he does not come home covered in bruises, cuts and black eyes on a weekly basis Where he does not vomit every morning at the thought of going to school because of the behaviour of his fellow pupils which did not get addressed.

My other son is getting a free education in the same school, where his year group are better behaved and does not have as many arseholes in it.

Both are happy and both accept sacrifices are being made to make sure they both get a good education and are happy.

I have looked at pulling my son out of private school and the only school we are offered is the one we left - so back to the same toxic bunch of arseholes we ran from in the first place. think that one will end in disaster if I did!

Single parent does not socialise, rrely buys new clothes and works two jobs to afford this innate luxury of educating my child in a safe environment. I have not privilege - I have bought safety and an education

My thoughts on this are that I don't want any sympathy from anyone about VAT. In fact I'd prefer it if everyone else didn't chip in with their opinions if it isn't relevant to them (which it isn't unless your kids go to private school as private schools are not subsidised by the tax payer so tax payers don't need to give a view..it's called "private" education for a reason 😉).

I think the aim should be state should be as good in fact better than private but I don't think private schools should be affected by the drive to improve state education (currently many private schools contribute to state provision by opening up facilities and classes). I'm hoping that a rise in state standards means private schools are pointless like in the US. But currently in my area they are not.

I don't see why we need to be like Mao's China and have state run, state controlled, uniform education which everyone has to go to. I don't think parents who want or need different for their child should be penalised and VAT is a penalty not added by any other European country as they are civilised enough to know that education is not a luxury but a good in itself. Typical Britain these days describing education as a "luxury good"..we really have dumbed down.

Those are my own views anyway. Just trying to give a personal view without expecting sympathy or being derogatory about people who don't use private education.

Really really don’t mind paying VAT. Zero issues with paying ‘luxury tax’ on what is effectively a luxury item. Absolutely on board with that money going to increase standards in state schools. All children deserve access to high quality education.

But abolishing it in order to achieve equality seems like the thin end of an impossible wedge. Do we also abolish tutoring? Extra curricular language clubs? Ballet classes? Sports? - there are always going to be parents who have the resources + or inclination to push / prioritise / encourage / expect more of their children - I’m not sure that is a circle you can square.

When we have free State nursery and free State university without tuition fees, you'll have a point. Until then, you are comparing something that has no free-of-charge alternative (uni, nursery) to something that has a free-of-charge alternative (private school). They aren't comparable services.