To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

Of course it won’t make the state sector better. The whole policy is based on ideology and doesn’t make fiscal sense at all. The state sector can’t even cope with the drop outs from
the private sector now.

the whole system is a joke - in my area to get into the good state secondary, the catchment area is 0.5m and all the 3 bedroom houses are over £1M. So basically the good state education is only accessible to the rich anyway. For us it’s cheaper to pay for private secondary than to move! Bonkers

and let’s not talk about all the “catholic” families who quickly christen their kids and suddenly are so religious to get into the good catholic schools (I know at least 4 families who have done that) the whole system is broken but it’s most popular to punish private schools

Such a ridiculously ill informed post.

Private school parents massively subsidise the state sector. The idea that poorer people are somehow subsidising rich people’s education is absurd.

It is a line made up by Labour to garner support from those who couldn’t be bothered to research the facts. It says a lot about some people that they genuinely believe it to be true.

Yes you are entirely correct!

but according to the private school mums we’re just all green eyed monsters who can’t cope with looking in on their lifestyle

Oh dear, you can't afford to send your kids to private school, so now they'll have to go to the state school where my kids go.

Can't think why I wasn't sympathetic. I must not have understood. 🙄

They would moan that they don't have uniforms in Finland and how the UK schools would crumble under anarchy, bullying and vaping if no uniform is had in a school.

The UK education system (private and state) need a complete shake up and I would welcome a Finnish model and as a lower earner I would happily pay more tax if it went to education and the nhs and to welcome a more functioning community. Sadly, most people are so selfish in the UK it just wouldn't work. This thread is a good example. How dare my kids have to have an inferior education with the rest of the plebs, mine deserve the expensive education I can no longer afford as I have paid for it.

Honestly, these threads!

Everyone in private school apparently is on a bursary, has SEND or haven't had a holiday for 10 years.

Yes the SEND provision in some parts of the state sector is abysmal. And yes the test of the state sector is massively underfunded.

I don't blame any parent who does the best for their child, whatever it takes.

But plenty of people over the last 15 years kept voting Conservative and supported that underfunding because ultimately they knew it didn't affect them as they could buy their way out.

I don't remember SEND or CAMHS being a massively political issue amongst donors and voters then.

But NOW you care. Kids with SEND are being used as some sort of fig leaf to argue to not pay more tax.

Yes we should make sure all children get the education they need. Yes state provision should be better.

So campaign for THAT, donate to legal funds for THAT, start endless Mumsnet threads and spend endless hours for THAT. Not avoiding tax your own privilege, sorry 'choice'.

And seeing some threads on here, it is parents not the schools supporting ending of bursaries because they don't want to pay for them.

It's offensive

Which is what I think Labour’s plan is. Especially bringing sickness benefits more in line with other countries. A contributory based benefits system seems likely. About time.

@KatieL5 @SophiaJ8

interesting how similar your user names are and how similar you points are….

But the gag was great!😁

It's a basic misunderstanding of what type of tax VAT is.

In my opinion many Labour policies over the past 2 decades have been about everyone being raced to the bottom hidden not very subtly behind the words “fair/equality/equity”. (And no denying that some opposing Tory policies seem to gatekeep a high quality of life for the few). I think we all accept - even the Socialists - that it is not possible for everyone to have the same standard of living, but it is too difficult to decide who is deserving of living at either extreme. Do we base it on talent, hard work, value to the community, contributions to Science? How are these things measured? Much easier to mudsling at the current top end then to build a population who take responsibility for their own choices, health, family size etc. With regards to VAT on school fees I don’t believe the state sector will truly benefit and I am saddened by the number of ppl who think that’s ok because at least the private school ppl will benefit less as well. What a bunch of ungenerous ingrates we are.

'@BleachedJumper this is about a good education, though? That everyone is saying is a right, remember?'

If it's a right then it shouldn't be something that the wealthy can pay for in order to have extra ' rights'

If good education is a right, then all the children should be getting an equal education

Total nonsense.

Why do you think the EU has made it illegal to add VAT to fees? Why does no other country in the entire world tax education? Why do many give income tax relief to private school parents?

Are they all wrong and Labour is right? That seems impossibly unlikely.

So if they can only scrape together £20k by remortgaging and can’t afford the vat on top, they’ve just been saved £20k by not sending them there anymore. I don’t care how it’s afforded or isn’t, I also don’t believe that for the average person that going to a private school makes a blind bit of difference over going to a state school.

These are not "private schools" in any sense that is recognisable in the UK context. You might as well claim that schools run by academy trusts are "private". The government dictates the curriculum and the admission policy.

The same argument is often trotted out about the Netherlands, where ostensibly 60% of kids are in "private schools". In practice these are denominational schools, but 98% of the cost is paid by the state. Something similar exists in France.

Let's be clear, what is meant by "private school" for the purposes of this discussion is one in which parents pay a very substantial amount of money to try and get the best for their children (a perfectly legitimate ambition!). That's why the VAT is seen as a problem. If Finland or the Netherlands or France put VAT on whatever their "private schools" charge parents, it would be about €20 extra.

Lots of essentials, genuine essentials like adult clothing (try going to work naked if you think clothes aren't essential), are subjected to VAT. A State school system, free at point of access, means that private school is not essential, so why should private school fees be exempt from VAT when the clothes I need to go to work are VATted?

Yes OK overall it was.

9/10

Why are we automatically supposed to feel more sympathy with this sentence just because it has ‘pensioners’ in it? Pensioners are the wealthiest age group in our society. There are far more people below pension age who will face exactly the same choice this winter.

Yes! Isn’t it very funny how they now all seem to care about SEND!

didn’t see you all fighting for those kids in the past 15 years….

honestly the entitlement on this thread is shameless

I'm not sure why it matters whether everyone else understands or not. It's happening, the VAT is being charged. Parents will have to make a choice what to do next. Trying to get everyone else to understand or have sympathy with them won't help in the slightest. 🤷🏼‍♀️

No child will get an "equal education" anyway. There are huge regional and social variations. It's just luck of the draw that you live in the catchment of a good school or an ability to buy a house to do so.

Sorry but I don’t believe MOST parents fall into that catergory. Maybe a few do.

IRL the ones I know opposing the VAT are rich and comfortable and just don’t want to pay the extra money they can easily afford. It’s hilarious when they try and pretend they are so concerned about the effect on state schools and sen schools even though they have never given a shit before.

Your point of view makes absolutely no sense to me. I assume the people paying thousands to educate their kids when they could have the same or similar outcome (the outcome of either is by no means guaranteed) for free must be very rich. The fact that people might struggle day to day for this is just bat shit to me and many others.

The best universities are becoming more biased towards state pupils. The biggest graduate employers have intakes biased towards social mobility. Promotions and progression at those employers are then monitored towards equality for social mobility. Wtf are you buying? Have you even thought it through?

I’m a small business owner too. We have felt the pinch just from cost of living. Trade down 90% for residential this year.

I can’t blame them. In my personal life this has meant we too need to cut down. I have wanted a cleaner for ages, it wasn’t cut as we never had it but that idea was scraped. Next to cut was Pilates 1-1 once a week, third to cut will be the gym membership and if I really have to scrape the barrel last will be the window cleaner.

I have already stopped having coffees the past month unless I can get it for £1 on a perk voucher (so now only using big chains). Used to go once or twice a week and pay full price.

Sadly this cutting leaks into everything. I need a new casserole dish. We have a local kitchen shop. I like to support local. The dish there is 25% more expensive than online. Usually I would pay that just to support a fantastic business but I’m umming and ahhing atm as it’s the best part of £50 more.

Personally I think all vat should be abolished. As a small service business owner it is crushing for us.