To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

“No one has talked any where near as much about what the conservatives inflicted on state school kids.”

I think this is where part of the anger comes from. No-one is convinced vat on fees is an economically sound policy to fix state education. At my children’s primary, they are absolutely skint but parents are propping up the finances via donations and the pta. Sen needs are through the roof the the council has a policy of automatically rejecting funding requests. They must be spending a bloody fortune in legal fees as it seems like you have to take them to court to cough up. Sorting that out would do much more for state education than pissing around the edges and destabilising the private sector.

It also has a population of 5.5 million. Comparison with UK does not compute.

Maybe, everyone should pay for education? Maybe it shouldn’t be free? (Means tested like the WFA naturally).

It’s not free though, like the NHS, or the state pension or anything state funded, we do all already pay for it through our taxes.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/private-school www.mumsnet.com/talk/private-school]]]]

Here^^

What I don’t get from the screeching about VAT on private schools is why, if it’s been a struggle for say 25% of all those sending their dcs private - there hasn’t been a concerted campaign to make them lower their fees? Why aren’t the parents who send their dcs to private schools - both those who struggle and those who find it relatively easy to find the money - fighting to get fees lowered?

on another thread a poster said if you allowed for inflation, the fees for her old school should now being around £12k a year but are over £20k. That’s just greedy of the schools.

a state school gets £5.5k per student. Even if private schools doubled that to £11k, that still would be significantly below what most private secondary schools are charging. The question of why? Is this good value for money? Needs to be asked.

Finland has around half the % of children in private schools as the UK does so not insignificant.

They fund their state education sector with far higher taxes on lower/mid range earners. It is the equivalent to adding around 10p to the base rate of income tax.

They also tax higher earners less than we do in the UK to encourage them to work more.

Still happy to replicate their model? Good luck telling people on 25k/30k that they aren’t paying anywhere near enough tax.

I think those that are against VAT on school fees gave very little understanding of how little people care.

I don't care about VAT on school fees. In fact I care so little I don't think I can be bothered to fin

I have to pay VAT on private speech therapy sessions for my son. Without them he would struggle in any education setting.

However, my SALT is not running a charity, she is running a business and therefore VAT has to be charged.

They also pay a lot more tax at average income levels.

Eg Belgium - 40% income tax payable at 12,000 euros (eg 10,000 GBP a year).
Portugal 37% income tax at 27,000 euros (23,000 GBP), Italy 35% income tax at 28,000 euros, France 30% income tax at 28,000 euros, Spain 30% income tax at 20,000 euros (eg 18,000 GBP)

According to the institute for Fiscal Studies, average earners in the UK pay the lowest levels of tax in the developed world. Higher earners (not those who can avoid tax) in the UK pay some of the highest levels of tax in the developed world. Eg Higher earners get screwed in the UK compared to elsewhere and lower earners have a pretty good deal compared to elsewhere.

Perhaps given higher earners in the UK already pay very high levels of tax compared to the rest of the developed world, its time for lower and average earners to start paying more tax?

The sooner this country has all dc going to state schools the better this country will be. Finland have the best European education in the world, private education is very rare. Let’s emulate that!

It may be a 'massive struggle' to you to afford private school fees but it's nothing compared to the 'massive struggle' the rest of the population has on a day to day basis. Choosing between heating and eating. Never going on holiday. Never socialising because you can't afford it. Forgive me if my sympathies lie with those struggles rather than VAT on private school fees struggles. Why should poorer people subsidise rich people's private school fees to the tune of 20% when universal education is so massively underfunded?

I very much support VAT on fees. If you and they can't afford it, then your poor darlings will need to go to state school like all the other children.
And yes, people who send their children to state school also work hard. Working hard isn't the preserve of people playing private school fees.

It isn’t the ‘average’ family who has the money to send their kids to private school…

It's no different to the NHS, there's absolutely no incentive for the rich and powerful to be interested in improving state schools, and wont be unless they're forced to use them, infact, theres a perverse inventive to ensure state schools are as bad as possible if you can afford private edication for your own kids.

Education is a right. "Good education" is entirely subjective.

The only way to improve the state sector is to invest more money in it and that money has to come from somewhere.

Also the state sector isn't terrible. Teachers are trained the same way as teachers in the private sector. The difference is that the private sector can run schools like a business, which means being selective and charging whatever fees they want to be able to offer better facilities.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

What I don’t understand ( and I would not have sent my children to a private school) is the logic of adding the vat when the children at private schools are saving the government the cost of a state education.

I mean, it's a great gag but you are taking the time to contribute to a thread about private schools so you fell at thr final hurdle.

What does the population have to do with it? At what number of millions of people does it become impossible for a country to function without schools where you pay an average after-tax salary in fees?

It’s absolutely wild that only 7% of parents privately educate and yet about 70% of mumsnet are fucking obsessed with the VAT.

Yabu. Why do you think only those who care about education use private schools? I care about education, my dc are predicted top GCSE grades in a system comprehensive. If you cant afford the fees OP, try a state school, you'll save a fortune on fees and VAT!

😭😭😭

good old Bridget sat there with her Oxford degree…getting out her jealousy barometer…hmmm Bentley…I’m a green eyed monster!

@SophiaJ8
I wasn't saying it would make any difference to children living in poverty. I was saying that children living in poverty in the UK worries me more than families not being able to afford private education.

I’d rather home educate my kids than have them indoctrinated under a Labour government

VAT is payable on services in the UK. Private school education is a service and therefore VAT is payable. How about looking at it from the point of view.....how much money you've saved all these years by getting a free pass on VAT.