To think a lot of people who agree with VAT on school fees…

[geeenuoe]

Actually don’t truly understand that to most sending their kids to these schools, it is a massive, massive struggle already.

There seems to be a mentality that if you can afford 20k a year then you’re already comfortable so sod it, you should find more cash now for vat … but do people in general not understand that some families re mortgage their homes to pay these fees? Yes there’s mega wealthy people but there’s many, many more who are not.

On the one hand we hear a good education is a luxury so VAT must be applied, then on the other we are told a good education is a right for all. So… why are we taking away that good education from those who already have it? Why is the focus not on sorting out the state sector properly? We all know the vat won’t fix the state sector. It may help in a tiny way in ad hoc circumstances but there’s so so so much more that needs to be done to state schools to make them ever match what the private sector offers.

I simply don’t get this mentality that those making sacrifices must make more when it comes to bloody education. I say this as someone who can’t afford the fees but if I could I absolutely would… and I also acknowledge that I am unwilling to go to some lengths that others will to pay it. I respect the choice of others to make such sacrifices and have no desire to make it harder and more inaccessible for the masses to access it. Similarly, I know plenty of people driving fancy cars and spending loads on holidays… they’ve chosen that over school fees. And those who have spend loads getting into a postcode of a decent state school… should they be paying enhanced tax on their house purchase?

Why do most people think those who pay schools fees are doing so with great ease? Is it basically because they don’t personally know people paying this so accept the media narrative that it’s the mega rich only?

Travel standard class. You’ll still get there and have a bunch more spending money.

It was a metaphor to show you how this appears to the 93% of people who send their kids to state school.

Comments like this is why people don’t care about the whingeing parents of private school kids.

I think most people who keep making posts about this topic again and again and again don't seem to realise that

A) Moaning about it on Mumsnet might give you the dopamine hit you crave as people pile in agreeing with you, but it's not going to make any difference to the policy which is generally popular outside of the Mumsnet bubble.

B) Birth rates are falling and so there isn't going to be the catastrophe of extra demand that people on here keep claiming. Especially as most private school parents will make other sacrifices before they pull their kids out.

@thepariscrimefiles I think because if someone said let’s tax those buying an unnecessary Bentley, I wouldn’t support it. Because I am not jealous and wish them well with their new car.

I'm not sure personal anecdotes really help the debate unfortunately. Your circumstances are your own.

Are you seriously suggesting that pupil
conduct and subsequent disruption to the education of others is similar in state and private schools?

But why was this not a consideration when many, many other cuts were made or extra taxes were levied for the last however many years? When people were told they should stop spending on avocadoes or coffees?

Yes, there will be people who now can't afford it, despite scrimping and saving.

But that is currently true. There are people who cannot quite afford it at the moment, and no one was wringing their hands about them.

Oh dear. In the real world most people struggle to live without sending their kids to private school. My opinions and concerns are for my family and others in the same boat not people who have the luxury to go private.

Thing is at this point it won’t be the ultra rich that bare the consequence of the policy but the normal but affluent.

I heard that one of the local prep schools were trimming costs by taking TAs redundant. Now you may go ‘excellent more TAs for state schools’ but is that really the people you want losing their jobs. I’m sure the private schools will be desperate to keep teaching staff but will be cutting costs elsewhere re gardeners, maintenance, support staff.

The people who can just afford fees are obviously going to be better off than many but will be quite normal. I don’t see how it helps anyone making private schools more elite.

Agreed. I'm much more concerned about the children who are going hungry and who live in awful housing than those who may have to leave a private school. If you've even started at a private school then you've got plenty of advantages to support you.

If by 'invested' parents you mean parents who are well off and determined that their kids get advantages denied to the vast majority of children, you are correct.

If by 'invested' parents you mean parents who really care about their children's education, you are complete wrong to say that the state sector does not have these sort of parents.

Starmer knew this policy would enrage those in underfunded state schools, equally it was a small proportion of society as a whole who it would cause problems for. Overall, if I genuinely thought it would fix the issues state schools have, I would be less opposed to it. Another thread about this subject addressed other educational advantages: buying property in catchment for outstanding schools, tutoring children and extra curriculars are all educational advantages of sorts. Everyone who can afford to, buys some sort of educational advantage for their children, to say one is wrong and another is right feels inherently flawed.

This this this.

Education should be the a equal opportunity for ALL children. Of course it isn't because there will always be people who can afford extra activities, extra tutors etc but the actual schools?! They should be good for all and not just the few who pay for it.

Why has this issue got so much attention in the media and this website?

No one has talked any where near as much about what the conservatives inflicted on state school kids.

People really need to read the room! Britain is broken we all need to pull out weight at the moment x

Finland:

• Regularly tops world happiness rankings
• Regularly tops OECD education rankings
• Has a thriving private sector
• Stood up to communism probably more than any other country
• Has basically abolished private education(*)

So it can be done, without any need to invoke "envy" or "socialism".

(*) It's slightly more complicated than that, but you certainly can't pay a big chunk of money to put your kids in a bubble of privilege relative to everyone else.

But @geeenuoe - we do tax Bentleys. We tax most luxury goods, a private education is a luxury good as a free one is available to all children in the UK.

I agree with this but I don't agree that taxing education is the solution.

my son is at private school with a bursary and a scholarship. 50% of kids at the school receive one, or both. its a great school with a good atmosphere. The bursary is means tested and very very fair, but I have to have top notch budgeting skills to survive.
I reckon a lot (not all) kids who pay full fees are there due to a passive income, eg the parents have been fortunate enough to inherit rental properties etc. The parents still work, but not in mega-salaried jobs. The fees are covered by this passive income so they don't have too much to worry about.
I voted Labour (even thought it doesn't favour me personally) because I vote for the greater good. I vote for my brother, I vote for my friends, I vote for the NHS.
I was really shocked that Labour decided to introduce it in January. It shows that the civil service are just as incompetent as they've always been. Its almost impossible to implement the background admin to get all this up and running and I am shocked they couldn't see it. I am so very cross with Labour as I had faith that they were organised and forward-thinking.
I do think we have a massive problem with the super-rich in this country, and I think we should be addressing this first.

Education is not considered a "luxury good" by any other European country.

Exactly. Isn't there a private education board? There should be so we wouldn't get this crap every other day.

Honestly, people concerned about this could go to their own board and congratulate each other on being invested parents who really care about their children's educations and could leave us ne'er-do-wells to our tracksuits and Greggs sausage rolls

Come and join us with your ideas!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5180761-6500-extra-teachers

I hate to say it, as it will effect us down the line but I feel the VAT payment is justifiable. We live in a country with free education so it's a choice for majority of parents. Yes, Its a bit little bit unfair for those who have just started paying it Vs people who have not had to pay for it but that's just the annoyance of taxes. Not too sure if this is the case but I guess for the schools it's a bit of a boon as they can now get VAT rebates on every purchase where as they couldn't before?

However, the system needs to be thought through better. For examples, if a non-fee school cannot support particular kids due to special needs, then the government should step and provide upto 100% of the private fees to ensure no child is left behind.

What I don't agree with is the money generated will no doubt be thrown down yet another public black hole. If they are going to do something good with the taxes then great. But you know they don't have a clue and will throw it down the drain on another hairbrained scheme!

Indeed. I might be willing to accept the argument that most children in private schools are from mild to moderately wealthy families. But ask them to pay extra income tax to bring state education up to comparable standards and I bet I know what most would say: "We already pay for our children's education, and save the public purse by choosing to do so. Why should we pay again?!"

Why do you care so much about it then? Really bizarre to be arguing the case when it’s not even something you’re doing personally!