Why aren’t people angrier at schools passing on full 20% VAT rise

[Newbutoldfather]

From what I can read, schools can claw back around 5% of the 20% of the VAT rise and, arguably, for the rich and famous schools, more than that due to past capital expenditure.

And yet most of these are passing on the entire 20% to parents so, in effect, a sneaky 5% fee rise, on top of this year’s existing fee rise.

So, why no anger or threads on here about it?

What does that have to do with the VAT policy?

You could have a range of budgets, some paid by parents.

In fact you could do rebates like other countries or vouchers and let people choose

All the opposite of this ludicrous VAT policy that no one else is going for, bar Starmer and co

I hope schools will prioritise own students who would be impacted by vat when it comes to bursary decisions.

You said the idea of no fat to cut was absurd and went on to reference social media people. I'm just pointing out thst it's not absurd - the difference in budget (we're talking about schools which are 4k per term here) is down to staff ratios and that is obvious because that's where the majority of funding goes. But if they "cut that fat" and increase class sizes to 30 then they lose their only selling point v's state schools and there would be no VAT to pass on as the school would close! So no - sometimes 16/17% is the best they can do.

I don't want that but Labour do, they are the ones bringing in this policy.
FYI teaching unions are now telling government to pause the policy.

@twistyizzy ,

‘FYI teaching unions are now telling government to pause the policy.’

I am not surprised. The schools will look to cut teachers’ pay rises.

Also, I have consistently advocated for a 2 year delay in this policy, to allow parents and schools to adequately plan and so that pupils can finish their schooling phase.

That sounds incredibly unlikely. Do you have a source for teacher's unions asking VAT on private schools to be paused?

You are correct anecdotes are not data- it’s a fact in front of us that we are seeing , (which is 42% of the class leaving to state school and much higher than the random 4% figure) however that is one class in one school.

4% is not verified and is a guess based on a limited sample. The data will not be verified until at least a year after it comes in and a number of years after to see the full consequences of this.

@Newbutoldfather if you want a range of schools with various budgets VAT won't do it

There are other ways that would work, and could change education for dc more positively than this damaging policy

We’ve been told that the school hasn’t been over charging parents for years therefore they don’t have the funds to mop up any of the VAT.

It’s a small school that doesn’t have the fancy facilities, big playing fields etc.

Neighbouring indies are big and wealthy and can pass on a saving for the VAT but ultimately this will come to an end at some point.

Yes I do. TES

https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/delay-private-school-fee-vat-charge-or-lose-teachers

Regarding unions, the NASUWT spoke out against this policy before the election.

I hear of big indies who let out their facilities to state schools, for free, and have now paused this until the VAT issue has been shut down. Why should an indie school take the cost of wear and tear caused by pupils from state when they are being squeezed?

I think there will be much more of this type of response.

Interesting article quoting some bona fide research:

lordslibrary.parliament.uk/independent-schools-proposed-vat-changes/#:~:text=And%20ironically%2C%20they%20may%20be,place%20on%205%20September%202024

This is exactly what our indie has done. We have stopped all state schools using our facilities and offering any support to the state sector.

@Newbutoldfather - there is already a middle ground anyway between state school funding and top private school offering. It is called state plus and encompasses the huge range of extracurricular and sometimes even tutoring and bond book and online educational app purchasing that we middle class state school parents have been doing for years. As well as being governors, running PTA etc

What I really want from Government is basic maintenance funding in our state schools that are already old and shabby. You have the new shiny stuff and then you have the hanging on stuff and obviously the RAAC scandal. It is just not OK to expect our DCs to spend all days in this shabbiness. It is separate from staffing issues and it mightily annoys me!

My DC’s schools is passing on 12.5% in January but this is a very difficult time for independent schools as they also have to allow for the business rates increase plus the increased contributions to the TPS this year. There’s only so much they can do and reducing costs is likely to mean redundancies so it’s not surprising that the teaching unions are concerned.

Our school has explained to us that VAT is 20% and that can't change - they are going to try and reduce fees but they don't know by how much yet - but I trust our school - they provide full bursaries to children including a few Ukraine children and I would not want their education disrupted. I am guessing also there are UK kids whose parents can't afford to continue and I would not be surprised if the school is confidentially helping them to finish the academic year...because that's the sort of school it is.

What I am angry about is the government saying the private schools have to continue with what charity etc work or bursaries they have - the government can't introduce the vat, say schools have funds to reduce fees for parents AND expect them to continue with charity offerings - the Government can not have its cake and eat it too.

A lot of small independent schools don't actually make a profit - the fees pay for the upkeep and maintenance the school with the vast majority going on teachers salaries - which in our school are now frozen partly thanks to the VAT issue.

@Areolaborealis ,

‘A lot of small independent schools don't actually make a profit - the fees pay for the upkeep and maintenance the school with the vast majority going on teachers salaries - which in our school are now frozen partly thanks to the VAT issue.’

No schools (or very few) make a profit. But they do make a surplus, which is invested into facilities, renewal, new projects etc,

It is shocking that a school, in choosing who to hot, effectively give their teachers a pay cut in real terms (average salary circa £40k) rather than charging parents (median salary prob around £150k per person).

They will just lose the good teachers to other private schools who are prepared to pay them what they are worth.

This post makes no sense. You argue that schools will lose good teachers yet you also argue for a 12% fee increase? How are schools meant to fund increased salaries then?

@Fevertreelover ,

‘This post makes no sense. You argue that schools will lose good teachers yet you also argue for a 12% fee increase? How are schools meant to fund increased salaries then?’

The way they always have, their normal annual fee increase,

They need to actually cut back some nice-to-haves, defer the new IT lab for a few years, cut back the bloated SLT structure, think about the economics of their 6th form (most run at a loss) and maybe cut back some extreme minority A levels.

I am not talking about small village primaries, which I am not qualified to comment on, but medium to large successful secondaries.

In any event, if you freeze teachers’ salaries, it is a guaranteed death spiral. As you will lose the best ones, especially those in scarcity subject, and who wants to pay for a school with crap teachers?!

cut back the bloated SLT structure,

Why aren’t we suggesting this for the apparently struggling state sector? Academy schools in particular have far more layers of SLT than the majority of private schools.

In the saMe way as Academy chains could cut back bloated SLT and massive salaries? That would fund TAs and resources for the state schools in that MAT