Why aren’t people angrier at schools passing on full 20% VAT rise

[Newbutoldfather]

From what I can read, schools can claw back around 5% of the 20% of the VAT rise and, arguably, for the rich and famous schools, more than that due to past capital expenditure.

And yet most of these are passing on the entire 20% to parents so, in effect, a sneaky 5% fee rise, on top of this year’s existing fee rise.

So, why no anger or threads on here about it?

There’s no denying that, for whatever reason, mental health problems have increased in children. Some children don’t feel able to talk to their parents. A lot of parents are extremely busy and don’t have time to spend time talking with their children. Many families don’t eat together any more for example. Providing children with a safe space where they feel they can talk through their problems is a good thing. It benefits the whole school community if all pupils are happy and feel stable.

I agree that parents should question price hikes to fund certain things, but I don’t think health provision is one of them. Saying that private schools must get rid of mental health in order fund exactly the same support in state schools is non sensical.

Rather than complaining about the schools though, I think this government should be blamed for this ridiculous situation.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/12/no-winter-fuel-payments-impact-assessment-was-carried-out-no-10-admits

They’re not blind to the consequences. They know full well what the consequences are likely to be, which is probably why they’re not producing an impact assessment now.

@Another76543 ,

‘There’s no denying that, for whatever reason, mental health problems have increased in children’.

Agreed.

‘ Some children don’t feel able to talk to their parents.
A lot of parents are extremely busy and don’t have time to spend time talking with their children. Many families don’t eat together any more for example.’

This is so sad that parents don’t want to parent, so pay a school to do it for them. At that point, you really should choose a boarding school.

‘Providing children with a safe space where they feel they can talk through their problems is a good thing. It benefits the whole school community if all pupils are happy and feel stable.’

And it doesn’t work. The odd hour at ‘Place to Be’ of one of its analogues isn’t really a substitute for serious professional counselling, especially the drop ins. And if you don’t need proper professional counselling, which many don’t, needing an adult to confirm that minor friendship issues are a serious problem doesn’t build resilience, quite the reverse.

The private school arms race in terms of sports, music, drama and now health, is a real thing. If you talk to private school heads, the vast majority will acknowledge it but say that it is what parents want.

What about the PP’s point that some of the VAT money is earmarked to provide mental health support in state schools?

@SecondFavouriteDinosaur ,

‘What about the PP’s point that some of the VAT money is earmarked to provide mental health support in state schools?’

It’s slightly facetious. If the money raised is about 1% of state school income and state schools end up spending 1% on counselling (it will be a lot less than that), then we the amount of VAT going into it will be negligible.

And don’t forget, the counselling in state schools is aimed at people who could never access it privately. I am still not convinced that a school, of any variety, should be a one stop shop for all child services, but the rationale in state schools is more powerful.

And don’t forget, the counselling in state schools is aimed at people who could never access it privately

How do you know? I have friends far wealthier than us whose children are at state school, and they would take up free counselling if it was on offer.

@SecondFavouriteDinosaur ,

I don’t know for a fact, but I would assume free counselling in the state sector would be means tested. Not seen the proposal and I doubt it will even happen, when the choice may be a qualified teacher or a counsellor.

Why should counselling in state schools be means tested if we live in a country with a health service free at the point of delivery?

Our grammar school has had a counsellor for years, never been means tested. Our London state primary has also had breakfast clubs for years and has been able to tap into funding and intervention for kids on FSM as well. The issue appears to be the inequality in the state system.

Many state schools have counselling services. You’ve already mentioned Place2Be and they offer services in several of the state schools near me. The service is open to all.

Staggered increase up to 17% over 12 months. And heavily hitting reserves to do that. I know that because I'm a governor there. I don't know any school increasing by the full 20% but then the schools mentioned are in a different league to our small prep.

Exactly. So many people think of private schools being Eton, Winchester etc full of billionaires kids. Mine go to a small independent school in the midlands, where the majority of the parents are massively stretching themselves to send their children there (in our case because of SEN and bullying that wasn’t being dealt with at all in the state sector).

Schools may try and mitigate in the first couple of years but eventually will have to pass on the full 20%.

9 out of our DD class of 19 have left and gone into state school. The government will raise £0!

The ISA are persuing a legal challenge and there is the Aleixis legal challenge- I don’t think it’s a done deal at all. The French and Germans are not happy with it and have raised it with our government.

Are ISA definitely raising a legal challenge? The ISC have been bloody useless and I'm cross with them too, that have let down their membership and failed to hold Labour to account.

Interestingly the Treasury are saying nom-dom attack won't raise anything and a charity is raising legal challenge to WFA. If you add VAT in one could say that it appears that Labour didn't do any due diligence prior to rushing all of these policies in (of course we KNOW that they didn't!!).

The Covid inquiry is also showing the full ramifications sooner rather than later on school children, in particular. A lot of children suffered due to Covid and that may be why there are still so many kids in private schools! Despite the cost of living.

Really surprised by Westminster. They are expanding and have been working on a new building for the new Reception, year 1 and year 2 classes. Surely they can claim back a large chunk.
Also no news yet for St Paul’s boys…..they have recently spent £32m on a new junior school, surely they can claim back at least £6m?

Indeed. I am certainly not the British elite. I am the parent of a disabled young man whose needs could not be met in the state sector. I don’t expect sympathy, I am merely stating a fact.

I am not angry with DS2’s school, which for that matter will not be passing on the whole 20%. I am angry that higher rate tax payers who have the luxury of having their children’s needs met in the state sector, are rubbing their hands with glee that families like mine will be paying thousands of pounds more to subsidise their children’s state school places, when they aren’t expected to pay a penny more.

Anyone with sense could see this pre GE

I'll add the 'smash the gangs' farce that now needs Labour to look at again

AKA we didn't have a bloody clue and people voted for us anyway

@twistyizzy ,

‘Schools may try and mitigate in the first couple of years but eventually will have to pass on the full 20%.’

That is absolutely not the case.

The idea that private schools have no fat to cut is absurd.

Have you looked at your children’s schools social media presence recently? In my last school, we had a staff member who solely did this. Is this really necessary?

Of course, if you want the arms race to continue and more and more parents priced out, they will pass on the full 20%.

At some point, though, schools will have to compromise on some of the flashy ‘nice to haves’ (which are often more nice for the Instagram feed than the pupils) and slim down a bit.

@TheJones ,

‘9 out of our DD class of 19 have left and gone into state school. The government will raise £0!’

Anecdote isn’t data.

According to The Times yesterday, 4% have indicated that they are changing schools. So, initially at least, it will certainly be raising considerable revenue.

You've clearly worked in a pretty elite school which is out of touch with the reality of a lot of small prep schools. I'm a governor and I know exactly what our finances look like. It's going to be 16/17% that has to be passed on for these schools to survive. There are no "social media" people in our school and everyone works incredibly hard. You're so out of touch.

@Ash38792 ,

I have worked at two London schools in what I would term the upper medium bracket.
They both had decent sized marketing departments (a Director of Marketing and a couple under).

I have also been the governor of a state primary trying to make a budget work on £5,200 (arguably closer to £7,000 on a private school equivalent basis). Umm, just to say, that is per annum, not per term.

It is a bit rich to call me out of touch.

There you go then - we are nothing like the school you work in - there are NO marketing people and there are no huge surpluses.

@Ash38792 ,

My experience is of senior schools (although I was governor of a primary.

I agree, and have stated, there are a variety of schools with different budgets etc.

But, hopefully, you can see that it is hard for me to see that there isn’t a middle ground between £7,000 per annum and £7,000 per term.