Why aren’t people angrier at schools passing on full 20% VAT rise

[Newbutoldfather]

From what I can read, schools can claw back around 5% of the 20% of the VAT rise and, arguably, for the rich and famous schools, more than that due to past capital expenditure.

And yet most of these are passing on the entire 20% to parents so, in effect, a sneaky 5% fee rise, on top of this year’s existing fee rise.

So, why no anger or threads on here about it?

I'm fuming at Labour especially Starmer: free private education, so many advantages in life and now paying for his kid to have peace AFTER his GCSEs. He proudly says he will do anything for his kids yet penalises lesser wealthy parents for doing the same.
I'm angry at Phillipson for being "proud" never to give stepped foot in an indy school, for refusing to engage, for deleting/cancelling and gaslighting indy parents and schools.
That's who I'm cross with, not the school because they are just being forced to implement a spiteful, ill thought out policy.

@DadJoke - I am emotionally invested because I believe policies of division harm the country. And I was very much hoping for better times with this new Government but it seems to be the same shower of shit all over again.

They have charity status but they are also a business - they are selling a service that people chose to take. Some are even owned by corporations or individuals

There are also private universities around - they can charge international students whatever they like and don't have charity status. They're businesses too

There are 2 private schools that I know of that have already closed as they were already strugglingpost Covid / Brexit and now with the VAT were unsustainable.

My daughters went to one of them, and both of them are now struggling to settle into their new school.

And before anyone starts about them being over privileged etc etc. Our state system failed both of them badly and it has taken years for them to achieve their potential; and now with the eldest in particular it feels as if we are back to square one!!

‘I would hope as a (former?) teacher, you had a more compassionate POV than the purely monetary. But there’s the mercenary argument if you want it.
I suspect you aren’t particularly in good faith, though, so I will leave the thread now and request you do not tag me further.’

I am not going to tag this particular poster but it seems a bit rich to choose to comment on someone’s thread, and then, when they come back with reasoned and evidenced argument, they decide to claim, with no reason, that I am trolling (why not report if so?) and then flounce off!

I have heard on the grapevine that the powers to be are now rushing through an impact assessment on this VAT. Is it true?

@redastra ,

Private schools are always coming and going, it is the nature of being in a competitive market.

(That is not to say that a school closing isn’t sad for all the stakeholders in that particular school).

Yes. There was NO impact assessment carried out and then one magically appears because Labour suddenly realised they needed one! An impact assessment carried out in only a few weeks is hardly going to be robust or trustworthy.

Ours is reducing the headline rate slightly but they’re keeping the flat 20% vat to give them wiggle room if/when business rates go up too.

Really? I wouldn't say no

Where did you see it?

Labour refused to publish one for the removal of the WFA

They seem utterly blind to consequences, deliberately so

Every single tax policy should have an assessment and the OBR can do an entire budget’s worth in a couple of weeks.

I am astonished that Labour hasn’t learned from Truss, especially with the WFA policy.

“At least the British elite will be paying VAT on their school fees. What is your position- it will be no problem for them, or they will flee the country?”

This is the crux of the matter, Reeves & Co fundamentally believe that private school = your rich Oxford mates from public school. Which clearly is not what the vast amount of children at private schools are! The public school lot are in the small minority.

So it is class warfare from one elite - North London “state school” Milliband types vs prep school public school types. Obviously they are all completely privileged anyway, so the rest of the school children will be thrown under the bus.

Not only have they not learned from Truss, their Manifesto Mantra was fully costed and fully funded! They had literally promised that there would be full impact assessments and the OBR would sign off on everything.
That was the overriding pledge, plus be squeaky clean.
Now they are being exposed.
But I do not see how it will help us as a country?
I have said all along - we need Oxford uni out of the Cabinet. It is too much of a bubble.

Obviously anyone can post anything, but I started this thread as I wondered what people thought of the school’s’ responses to the VAT rise. Clearly private school parents (on the whole) will think the VAT is a bad thing as , like 99% of people, they favour tax policies personally beneficial to them.

FWIW, personally I have no objection to VAT on school fees and think it should be viewed holistically together with why fees have increased so much over inflation for decades with nary a whimper of complaint as many were forced out of the sector.

However, I do think it is really wrong to bring it in with such haste. I would have much preferred a two year delay, so pupils could finish their current phase and schools had times to properly plan and budget knowing all the details.

But I do think that this is a massive opportunity for schools to take a step back and decide what they want to provide and to whom and for what cost.

@Newbutoldfather bollocks. This isn't an "opportunity", it is an attack. Stop dressing it up as anything other. It isn't reasonable, it is designed to force kids into state sector and therefore under the control of Labour

@twistyizzy ,

‘ bollocks. This isn't an "opportunity", it is an attack. Stop dressing it up as anything other. It isn't reasonable, it is designed to force kids into state sector and therefore under the control of Labour’

Now, that is really bollocks! Firstly, the government doesn’t control schools at anything other than a really high level. Secondly, they want as few as possible to leave, so they can collect as much money as possible.

If too many leave, the policy will be a disaster.

Of course they control things: curriculum, funding, Ofsted/inspection regime, number of teachers etc.
They literally want to close all private schools, Phillpson, Reeves + Raynor are all on record saying so. This is just doing it via the back door.
VAT won't bring in money, that's very obvious. By the time they exempt everyone (military now doing a legal challenge as well as the SEN legal challenge) there will be less than half of the initial projected figure coming in plus then year on year the figure will reduce due to behaviour change. It has never been about money!

Yep. But it also means that we do a lot of teethgrinding when reading threads like this one!

Interestingly a bursar I know says HMRC will still not let their school register for VAT as "they are not ready yet"

That’s ridiculous if it’s true! It’s due to be implemented in 3 months time. How are they going to get every school registered in time? I’m cynical that they’ll say they’ll delay it until the next academic year and say “look how generous we are being”.

The reason they can’t register yet is because the scheme isn’t open yet.

The “scheme”? It’s not a “scheme”. It’s a change in existing tax legislation.

Is everyone on the group education not taxation on Facebook? Hopefully it’ll be over turned

There are 2500 private schools and 277,000 VAT registrations every year. It’s a matter of minutes to register and it’s an automated system. This bursar is an absolute fool for not reading the HMRC guidance on this, if they exist.

They will manage just fine.

Mental health provision in a lot of private schools is excellent. Surely that’s a good thing? Mental health problems have massively increased over recent years; comparing it with the situation 10-15 years ago is ridiculous. Our school has a drop in service where pupils can pop in just for a chat if they are feeling down or worried about anything. They don’t have to have recognised mental health problems to be able to access it, and it means that issues can often be nipped in the bud before they escalate into more serious issues. Prevention is often easier than cure.

You’re arguing that private schools should cut mental health provision, in order to mitigate the VAT charge. The irony is that part of that VAT has been allocated by the government to provide mental health support in state schools. So private schools should give up their mental health support in order to fund mental health support in the state sector?

@Another76543 ,

‘Mental health provision in a lot of private schools is excellent. Surely that’s a good thing?’

Why? Do you think a school should basically take over the parenting role, and just increase fees until only the very riches can afford it? They have already (in large part) taken over hobbies, supervision of prep, educational trips etc etc.

Of course, in boarding schools it is different, but what is wrong with a day school providing an affordable excellent education and leaving parents to do some parenting?

‘Our school has a drop in service where pupils can pop in just for a chat if they are feeling down or worried about anything. They don’t have to have recognised mental health problems to be able to access it, and it means that issues can often be nipped in the bud before they escalate into more serious issues. Prevention is often easier than cure.’

Both of the schools where I taught had these, rapidly expanding into an entire medical centre in my second school. They were, of course, outsourced to expensive external operations. As to their efficacy, I don’t think anyone tried to extract meaningful data, but lots of pupils did suddenly need to drop in instead of turning up to a disliked lesson or staying outside at lunch (they ended up by pupils needing slips). Anecdotally, a lot of pupils were also going there with friendship issues that would have sorted themselves out.

But the vague catchall ‘Mental ‘Ealth’ (as opposed to a specific diagnosis) is sacrosanct these days, so even questioning whether the intervention is effective is a heresy.