Rough school - does it matter

[Feelingsensitive]

This follows on from a post last week so excuse slight repetition but I feel I have fine tuned my thoughts a bit now. DD is currently as a school we are happy with (nursery) in every sense (good results but not results driven, nice grounds) except its in a rough area. I dont have much in common with the other mums but DD seems happy and has made some lovely friends. We have now been offered another school in a 'better' area. Lots of boden and cup cakes going on IYKWIM. However, the grounds are nothing compared to the current school. It has excellent results which I imagine is due to them being more results driven.

I feel uncomfortable with the rough element of DDs school but I question whether thats my problem and in actual fact it doesnt matter?

Any thoughts.

I like to think I am somehere in the middle - not scummy or yummy. Quite obviously a snob though

I haven't told him, but that's what'll be happening.

To top it off, he went mad when my ex-SIL moved back here with my nephew earlier this year, even though he's emigrating to Australia in the next couple of years.

I'm going to be keeping in touch with my nephew and ex-SIL. She's down to earth and fun.

My brother and his new wife are neither.

Without getting into arguments, here are some questions I would be asking in your position:

Which one is easiest to walk to? (very, very important question and not to be under-valued!)

If she moves, will she lose touch with her lovely friends? Never mind whether you get on with their mums - that will be irrelevant soon enough.

Does the "rough" school succeed in educating children, at the end of the day? Is it caring and inclusive of all sorts of different learning abilities? Do they make good use of those grounds and let the children get active and play? (If so, it sounds much like my kids' school which has a reputation for being "rough" and is actually a lovely place, with great teachers and some great kids from a whole range of different backgrounds).

Or does the rough school have genuine, education-related problems that you need to be concerned about (bullying, high staff turnover, weak leadership for example).

And on the other hand, if you hang around at the gates of the boden-and-cupcakes school do you hear lots of competitive mummying going on? Do they push results at the expense of other worthwhile things, or does it seem like a pretty well balanced kind of place?

Hmm! Have read through the thread and tbh I think where a school is becomes irrelevant if you are happy with it. I send my DS tpo a local Catholic school - I am not Catholic and it's not a strict school where admissions are concerned. It's intake is from a large town with many rough council estates (I live on one of them). I am fairly independant, have a degree and a good job. However, my upbringing was on a council estate, I still live on a council estate and like the people who live there (mostly). I can talk to them and unserstand their issues.
If you didn't have that upbringing then it might seem alien to you OP but most people are very nice if you take the time to get to know them. I would go along with your instincts regarding the "feel" of both schools. If you like the pre-school I am guessing that the school will be fine too.

I think it sounds like at the moment you think your dc would be happier in the "rougher" school and you'd be happier in the boden school....and you are trying to understand whether your wishes should temporarily precede over your dc's...because it might be ok and she might just come around to the Boden school. Just check that the Boden School is not a graveyard for lazy teachers who are good with high ability middle class kids but struggle to help any child with any special needs and throw any problems at the feet of the parents to sort - I didn't think my dc had special needs until he arrived at the "graveyard" school - the outcome was not great - for either of us.

Consider the future, as JGB says, consider which secondary school you would like her to go to.

Also its not just the education that goes on in the classroom that counts. Children are very influenced by their friends. If their friends parents have low aspiration, the children may have too and if they have, it may effect your daughters outlook.

Me, I would choose the "better school" we don't send our children to school for six hours of free child minding. If you want a confused child (I was, my parents were born again socialists!!) decide which school best reflects your own up bringing and family values and certainly don't be made to feel a snob about it either.

OP you could be describing my dd's school - I almost wonder if it is the same. Do you live in London and if so can you give a clue?

FWIW, there has been incidents of swearing at dd's school that made me very about keeping her there. Until then I was fine with tattooed parents all chainsmoking round the gates. But I'm keeping her there for now and sending dd2 because what I've noticed is that the majority of parents seem to value education and turn up to all the events to support their children. If they don't do that then that is a definite sign to move her

You could be describing my dc's school, OP. Here's what I think about it.

The teachers are brilliant -- they need to be because it's a very challenging intake, but I'm seeing no evidence that bright children aren't challenged or struggling children aren't helped. A lot of where children end up is dependent on where they start from.

The school ethos is fantastic, kind of 'these are our kids and we're going to do the best for them -- ALL of them'. Unlike some schools in leafy lane where kids with SEN get left behind.

The kids are by and large fantastic -- friendly, polite, accepting, and try hard at whatever they do. There's no arseyness or entitlement.

And I've learned a lot from talking to parents a lot of them aren't people I ever would have met in a million years otherwise and it's been a humbling experience to see how hard some people's lives are and how they cope.

Of course there are some obnoxious people (but I guess you find them anywhere) but most are lovely and I've made many more friends in the playground than I ever thought I would.

The swearing and dangerous dogs would worry me. How committed are the parents to their chidren's education for example? That would be a concern to me, not when they are all sweet 5 year olds but when they are 10/11 year olds and have picked up habits at home.

Daisymiller that sounds awful, your poor DD

As many parents have pointed out, it is whether the parents value education or not that makes the difference. Also if the Head Teacher and all the teachers have high expectations of all the children regardless of where they are from. FWIW my DD goes to a very mixed school and I have found that the wealthier and more educated parents tend to take a more casual approach regarding education. They seem to take it for granted almost. Also problems with bullying have come from middle class children so you really can't generalise or judge people. Saying that though, it would be naive to suggest that a school with a diverse intake would not be under certain pressures but it still depends on the leadership in my view. All the children will be at the same starting point and every child should fulfil their potential. I think only you can decide what's right for you and your child though. What does your gut tell you? Do you think your daughter would thrive there?

OK.

Imagine your child is in year 6 (impossible, but try). Is the area so rough you wouldn't want her walking home on her own at 3.30 in the afternoon?

Is the catchment area exclusively seriously deprivedd, or is it, like our school, seriously deprived on one side - more up-and -coming on the other?

When you go into the schools, which seems more vibrant and "buzz-y"?

Where are your dd's friends from nursery going?

Hmmm...I have mixed views.
I grew up on a sink estate and so am defensive about the people who live there. They are not all to be avoided.
However, if am very very honest, there were many to be avoided. I hated livin there and hated my school.
If there had been any choice Mum would have moved us away from both.

Our local primary is also in a disadvantaged area. And yes, there is swearing, smoking and the occasional contretemps in the playground. But what would put me off more are the very poor attitudes to education.

Feeling Sensitive, you could be describing my two DC's schools. My eldest is in the rougher school, and youngest in the Boden-school. Eldest is too happy where she is to justify moving her now(we arrived mid-way through Year 1 and it was the only school with place for her). On the whole her school is excellent - head teacher and teachers go the extra mile. But there is a high staff turn-over and friends DO matter. I wish we were not in this position. However, there are many many positives about her school, and plenty that annoy me at Boden-school, so I understand your dilemma. Personally, (considering much more than I mentioned here obviously) I would move her, the earlier the better.

Good luck!

We went for the 'rough' school only to discover that - once inside the school - the behaviour is immpecable.

We chose this school because bother children could be together and wanted to use our closest school to give us the opportunity to walk there.

The 'nice' school that everyone around us wants to get their children into has a higher staff turnover (that always tells you something about a school), no grounds at all and the most gossipy boden clad mothers.

Yes, I am about one of the only mothers not to be tattooed, but there are others like me and - to be honest - I want to mix with a greater range of people than I do through work. And, gossipy boden mothers can get a bit annoying, even if I am one!

Oh, and tattoed mothers think education is important too; I find the aspiration of all the parents very encouraging - it's the school in the LEA with the highest percentage of free-school meals but nearly all the parents want

a) the teachers to be good
b) their children to work hard
c) their children to enjoy their childhoods.

And I wanted my dds to realise that not all adults have professional jobs and went to Oxbridge...