Going to church to get DS into school?

[ChocOrange05]

I am not a Catholic, I was confirmed CoE but as a young teenager (because my friends were). I am not a religious person, I guess I would consider myself an Agnostic.

Anyway, DS is 17mo and I have been thinking about the whole schools debate and one of the best in our area is a Catholic school.

Is it wrong for me to consider going to church and getting DS baptised, just to get into a good school?

Has anyone else done this? What were your experiences?

TIA!

I have a friend who is doing this and I'm pretty about it but then I refused to get married in church because I felt strongly that I didn't want to make vows in a context I don't believe in.

Depends how oversubscribed the school is.
Our catholic schools expect parents to be married in catholic church, children baptised before a year old and weekly attendance at church bar holiday and illness as well as doing something towards the parish.

Depends how comfortable you'd be with him coming home filled with faith and all the attendant beliefs, praying several times a day, facing first holy communion. It's a way of life, not just an education.
How long would you be prepared to keep it up? Is he baptised already? Most catholics seem to baptise babies rather than toddlers. Depends whether the priest believes your conversion too, it's not just going to church. There's the whole taking communion bit.
I can't imagine myself attending the local temple if the nearest best school was Hindu. Seems an odd thing to do.

Morally, I don't think it's any more wrong for you to do this than it is wrong for the system to work in a way which means you have to consider it IYSWIM?

However, if you look at the number of threads on here where parents are unhappy about the messages their DC are getting about religion from school, then you have to think about whether you will be happy to "go along with" the Roman Catholic teachings and practices for the next umpteen years, just to get a school which looke a bit better than the alternatives. And also what you are teaching your child about honesty, integrity etc.

Yes, sorry, it's totally wrong. Not that I agree with the whole ethos of having state schools anyway, I think that's wrong. But it doesn't make it OK to start some disingenuous religious parody just to get him into a decent school.

Sorry. I can see where you're coming from but I'd rather be truthful than keep up a pretence. Religious schools are full of religion anyway...makes my teeth itch some of the nonsense ds comes home with, apologies to those who are religious, it's not the belief itself that gets to me, but the way it's put across by our school.

and I didn't lie to get ds in, either!

Plenty of people do it. It is a huge committment. They may want to know why you want to baptise him catholic when you are not?

If you think you can keep it up for 10 years (secondary school entry is very strict) then go for it.

Agree with rainbow, double check exactly what hoops you need to jump through . You may already be too late jumping on the bandwagon to guarantee your ds a place. Then if he were to get a place, could you deal with the day to day religious expectations he , and in turn you, may face.

i don't think you can baptise your child as a catholic unless one of the child's parents has also been baptised as a catholic

Doesn't it depend what "best" means? If your nearest school is a catholic school and you are not a catholic, does that mean perhaps it isn't the best school for you? If on the other hand you are interested in your DS becoming a catholic, then by all means start investigating it.

Thanks for your replies - its definitely given me something to think about.

I do not want to do anything deceitful, i.e. saying I believe in god to get him into school, but I am quite openminded about learning about it all and DS learning, but yes the main reason would be to try and get into the school. Hmm, maybe that is deceitful??

My grandparents were quite strict catholics so I do have some family history but neither of my parents were ever churchgoers.

A few people have mentioned religious expectations, what do you mean by that?

Also, I have no idea how long the commitment would be - I don't know if the best secondary schools are catholic too? Do you have to keep going to church every week once they are in the school?

If that were the case chibi, how would they get new converts?

OP - Would you lie to get benefits you weren't entitled to?
Would you lie about where you live to get your child into a school?
Would you lie about not already being married in order to commit bigamy?
I doubt it- but what you're proposing is the same.

Read the baptism service- you are making a public promise and a public commitment to raise your child as a catholic. If you don't believe then you would be standing in church, lying. Surely you can see that's morally wrong.

If you want your child to go to a good school, then you may need to take action( ie move or look at fee paying schools in your area).

It really depends on how popular the school is as to how much is expected.

CaptainNancy - good points, no I would not do any of those things, I hate lying and rarely do so (apart from white lies eg: "no I didn't give DS that tiny bit of chocolate )

I guess it depends on what it means to "raise your child as a catholic". Do I have to insist to him that god exists, when I don't KNOW the answer to that? Or do I teach him about the church and what it stands for and allow him to make up his own mind? That I could do.

It really is a minefield! I am the kind of person who accepts everyones beliefs and opinions but I don't have any strong ones myself, I prefer to be openminded, would that conflict with the Catholic church?

But you're not a Catholic, so how will the conversation go when you sit down with the priest and talk through why you want your child baptised? The Catholic is a very different animal to the C of E, so you won't be able to fake it, cos they'll spot you a mile off.

I would be very surprised if the priest would agree to baptise a child where neither of the parents were Catholics, because one of the things you undertake when you have a child baptised is that you will bring him or her up in the Catholic faith. And generally you have to attend a baptism preparation course and attend mass regularly before you even apply for baptism for your child. In any case you won't just be able to knock on the priest's door and get your child baptised just like that.

And then there's the knotty bit where you have to stand up and make actual promises about the stuff that you believe in. Do you genuinely not have an issue with that?

Most of the people who attend church to get their child into a school have some affiliation with that church already, even if they don't practice that faith. Doing a fake conversion just for a school place is barking.

Yes, you will be expected to teach your child that God exists and to actively bring them up in teh Catholic faith.

IMO its wrong if it entails you lying by word or deed, but its not nearly as wrong as this system of unfair admissions existing in the first place.

If you really want your child to be educated in a faith school that should surely be enough for them. Religious discrimination is wrong, discriminating against a child because of what its parents do or don't believe shows a sad lack of ethical integrity.

Its such a shame that DS will not be able to go to a good school because of what I believe, and not based on his learning and ability to make up his own mind. Is this not just a form of prejudice against non-catholics?

I know they have expanded their criteria to allow non-catholics but based on their entrance figures, last year that was 1 child (out of 60).

WHen we applied we were not allowed to put down any school that wasnt a catholic school so a real risk if you dont get in. Same for secondary too.

You will be expected to tell the priest that you believe in God and the Catholic religion, and that you will bring your child up to believe the same.

Then when he goes to school he will be taught that God definitely exists and that the Catholic principles are correct. He won't be told about them in a neutral way, he will be told that Jesus died for us all etc.

If you can handle all that then go for it. But even then I expect you may find you and your DS are not sufficiently religious to make the grade - at the RC school near us, you basically need at least one parent to have been baptised Catholic at an early age, and the child to have been baptised soon after birth, to have a chance of getting in.

For all these reasons, I wouldn't consider it.

(By the way, the concept of faith selective state schools makes me incredibly . But that's a different discussion.)

"Do I have to insist to him that god exists, when I don't KNOW the answer to that? Or do I teach him about the church and what it stands for and allow him to make up his own mind?"

Are you serious? There is no salvation except through Jesus Christ. That's what you'll have to teach him.

Have a look at the creed, a central feature of the mass.

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made.
For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures:
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Rainbow does that mean you could only apply to catholic schools??

The trouble is catholic schools are often better than other non catholic schools. If they allowed anyone in then they would no longer be catholic schools and therefore just the same as the other schools in your area.

Yes, we could only apply for catholic schools but we wanted our dc to have a catholic education so that wasnt an issue for us.

The argument is that you want a catholic education for you dc so why would you apply for a school taht wasnt.