can state primary education plus tutoring = equivalent of private?

[wheelsonthebus]

we planned to privately educate dc, but dh lost his job and now dc is going to a state primary - downgraded from good to satisfactory by ofsted . if we have dc tutored from yr 1 say, can we get up to standard of a private school(with a view to moving dc if our finances improve - possibly at 7, but definitely at 11). Can an hour a week really achieve anything? Anyone done this from early on? Interested in any views. I now work f/t so doing lots of stuff with dc after school myself is not really an option (except at weekends). I'd be interested to know when tutoring shd really start. My friend said her primary school gets great league table results but that's because most parents pay tutors. Also; what do most people get tutors for - maths or English or both?

Sorry, that was meant to be 60/40

thedolly if you are asking do we get extra money in the school budget because we are in an area of social and economic deprivation to pay for the activities the answer is no.

I can't say whether the budget is the same as another school as this are calculated on the number of pupils and each LA has a slightly different method of allocating money for SEN etc '

I should add thedolly that the primary schools in the next villages (3 very leafy middle class 2 S& E deprivation) have exactly the same type of activities on offer.

That all sounds great mrz. Let's hope it leads to students who are motivated to learn in and out of the classroom.

mixed netball is now called High Fives and there are plenty of tornements at primary school and county levels.

So can I ask those of you who teach at/children attend private school a question? Snorkle says it is the extras that set private schools apart. What extras does your school offer that are not available at state schools? We've heard about sports provision on this thread. My children are only averagely sporty and the provision at their state school plus what's available locally is more than adequate for them. What about non-sport extras? My three dance, play in orchestras, sing in choirs, learn languages (dead and alive). What more could they be doing?
I'm not trying to be contentious here, I'm just wondering if I had the spare £30,000 a year to educate my three privately (which I don't) what a school would offer to make that a worthwhile investment.

With so many questions regarding what state schools can provide compared to private schools, please feel free to take a look at what my DCs get in terms of free education.

Yes this school has been given Outstanding by Ofstead for 3 consecutive inspections, However we are in a very deprived area with a high propotion of children who which english is a second language.

Please feel free to ask me questions, I shall answer them to the best of my knowledge
www.inourschool.com/st%20sebs/stsebs%20home.htm

TeamCullen, your school looks fantastic.

Thanks LGP. I havent posted the link to brag, but to just point out to people that going to any school is not just about leauge tables and extra curricular activities. Its about children learning in a stimulating enviroment and having fun, and this can happen in the state sector.

Im not saying this doesnt happen in private schools because as Ive said before, I have no personal Knowledge.

However I cant find any websites containing private schools which show the children having so much fun whilst learning.

LadyGP-my local state primaries in a relatively affluent area, do not offer orchestras, extra sport, chess etc. so that is one of the reasons why I'm happy to pay for private. DD is not especially sporty so the wide range of sport that they do as part of the normal curriculum is worthwhile as she enjoys hockey but would not be want to commit to the 3x weekly sessions our local club demands (and I suspect they would not take her). Similarly the county music service offers musical activities out of school but as we both work f/t there is no way she could attend these. I don't think DD's school ofers anythig that could not be got elsewhere (except perhaps organ lessons)with varying amounts of effort but it offers it all in one place which makes our lives very much easier.
If you get all that extra stuff from your state school and are happy with the education they are receiving, their friendship groups etc. then why would you pay?

lgp, some extras I forgot before are riding, brownies, chess, golf, board games, jewellery making, art, music theory, dt and cooking. They learnt 4 foreign languages at primary school too, although you may not want to count that as they really only dabbled in them, but there were language & cultural exchanges. Probably other things that I've forgotten too. In music there were small ensembles for the very able, piano trios & string quartets for example, (as well as the all comers groups and orchestras) which would be hard to be involved in at that age & ability outside a music conservatoire/pro corda type group if it wasn't offered at school. It stands to reason that if a school isn't bound by the NC to spend 2 hours a day teaching maths and English (I may be out of date here & perhaps it's not as rigid any more) that there will be more time for other stuff that raises the quality of life for children & still leaves them time in the evenings to chill. I don't really understand how private schools achieve the same or better academic results when their terms are shorter and they spend less time actaully teaching academics, but it does seem to work that way & I wonder if the other stuff just tends to leave kids happier & more productive.

If your dc are doing all that you/they want (& it does sound as though they are) in their state school then that is fine and you would be foolish to pay £££ extra. I would & did feel the same & the extras were extremely low on the list when I chose my dcs school. However, and with hindsight, I know that my dcs would not have had the opportunity to pursue as many instruments, play in as many ensembles & orchestras, partake to as high a level as many sports and try out as many other bits and pieces if it hadn't been laid on for them at school (that said not all children want to do many extras & so arguably for them it would be a waste, but you don't really know if your child is like that until they've had the chance do you?). It's not so much the specific things, it's the time to pursue as many as they do. I'd hazzard that in a private environment your dc would have time to fit in more and just maybe that extra activity would be one that they really gelled with & wanted to pursue to a high level. I feel this is the case with ds & cello - he would not have learned it if not for the school - I would have considered piano/recorder more than enough.

snorkle schools have never been bound to 2 hours maths and English although many chose to work that way.

mrz, good! When I looked around years ago it seemed to be accepted practice for it to be 2 hours (as I recall, they were even called the literacy and numeracy hours) and it always struck me that it didn't leave all that much time for other stuff. When you also consider that if you have to take your child somewhere for something in the evening it usually takes about twice as long as you have travelling time as well (so a 30min music lesson can take a much bigger chunk out of the evening) I think there are a lot of advantages to doing it at school (as well as some disadvantages too).

LGP - people can only compare the schools available to them!!!

So when my dcs attended the local primary they could do French for half an hour at lunchtime once a week plus football after school once a week - both to be paid for. They did PE once a week - usually something in the school hall, in good weather they could use the "field". There were no school teams for any sport. Sports Day was completely non-competitive.

There was instrument tuition provided by the council but there was only a choice of three instruments and again it had to be paid for.

There was no choir and only Year 6 did a drama production (as a leaving thing).

At the local prep school they learn French and Latin. They do football, rugby and cricket (with real teams and proper matches) plus they are in a choir. There are orchestras and ensembles and drama productions. There is a huge range of instruments available for individual tuition.

Extra-curricular - this year alone they have gone to kayaking, archery, current affairs club, IT club and I can't remember what else . There are loads of other clubs they don't go to. In addition to the fees I have paid for the instrument tuition and kayaking - nothing else. Ds1's trip to France was included in the fees.

I'm sure your dcs school is fab and they seem to have lots of options. My choice was starker - I can see that what I pay for is better than their previous school. This won't be true for everyone in every area but it is true for me.

They were called the literacy and numeracy hours (although the numeracy was supposed to be 40 mins not an hour) but they were never compulsory. My children's school never worked this way and my own school dropped it years ago so that we can be more flexible eg
longer if needed for extended writing ...

All our activities take place in school unless it is a competition or exhibition. The chess team travel to other schools and one of the classes took part in a dance festival type thing.

yes, I wasn't suggesting that schools might run extra activities mraway from school mrz (though I suppose some do & for some things it'snecessary), more pointing out that if you try to compensate for schools that don't do activities by doing them in your own time it further erodes your quality of life. There are other advantages though, in that you are much more aware of what is going on. I know music teachers who say their private students tend to do much better than their school ones for this reason.

Most of our activities are during school time but some run right after school as this often suits parents.

snorkle, what do you mean by ' you are much more aware of what is going on'?

If you take a child to eg a music lesson after school tricker, then at the most basic level you know that they have gone to it, if it happens at school then they might well have forgotten to go, or it could have been cancelled, or the teacher might have decided to combine it with someone elses or cut it short for whatever reason & you will be none the wiser. Additionally, you are likely to actually see and speak to the teacher & so get feedback as to whether your dc is behaving, or need to practice more or whatever. Music peris at schools are notoriously difficult to contact as a parent. For other activities (dance classes & the like) you are more likely to stay & watch sometimes so you know what is happening. At school you have little or no idea depending how communicative your child is.

So for people who have turned to the private sector for a wider based curiculum, do you think you are getting value for money.

Mettella- School fees include all activities including extra curricular sports and arts, holiday to France + education. But additional charge for music and Kayaking.

In my experience Ive had
Excellent education- free

Football, Tag rugby, High Fives, Athletics, cross country, hockey... all competitive and fun- free + free transport

Dance,drama, speech choir, choir...Competitive and fun- free

Guitar, keyboard, violin, cello, flute, trumpet etc... Chance to perform with RLPO, take exams and compete. £30 per term.

Trip to spain to attend a spanish camp and improve language- £200

Adventure holiday-£140

Trip to London to see The Lion King to support learning if the topic "The animal kingdom"- £40

Many local trips to support learning- From free- £5.00

Interesting points of view. We seem to be extraordinarily lucky in what is available to the DC in our local area. My DC all do music lessons in school (taught by the same peris who work in the local private school). State and private school children play together in the same local orchestra, additionally each school has an inhouse orchestra. Can't say I have ever noticed any difference in standard. We have regular contact with the teachers. There are many (some parents would say too many!) opportunities for children at all local schools to take part in concerts, performances etc. They learn French, Spanish and Italian and Year 6 do an exchange trip with an Italian school.
The five or six primaries I know local do offer similar opportunities. From the sounds of it several other posters on this thread have DC attending similar state schools.
What I am wondering now is how representative these schools are of state provision as a whole.
Because I honestly believe that my children are getting an excellent education, and I don't think a private education would offer them anything extra.

Also out of school activities which include

Cubs/Beavers- £2 + extra costs for camps

Dance/drama £3.50 each + extra for comps, exams, costumes

Martial arts £3.00 per lesson

These activities have the advantage of DCs meeting children from other schools

We used to have a fantastic peri piano teacher at my DC's primary who got several children through scholarships. Unfortunately he left and the replacement was awful.

Yes agree, teamcullen. We have children from several local schools at our Brownies (of which I am Brown Owl). The same for the dance school.

I think since Ofsted started, schools have had to improve year on year to keep the inspectors happy and it definatly seems much more common that schools appear in the local newspaper for excellent or outstanding Ofsted reports.

The schools which are not thriving get picked up on much quicker and extra support is given or in some circumtsances new management are brought in.