can state primary education plus tutoring = equivalent of private?

[wheelsonthebus]

we planned to privately educate dc, but dh lost his job and now dc is going to a state primary - downgraded from good to satisfactory by ofsted . if we have dc tutored from yr 1 say, can we get up to standard of a private school(with a view to moving dc if our finances improve - possibly at 7, but definitely at 11). Can an hour a week really achieve anything? Anyone done this from early on? Interested in any views. I now work f/t so doing lots of stuff with dc after school myself is not really an option (except at weekends). I'd be interested to know when tutoring shd really start. My friend said her primary school gets great league table results but that's because most parents pay tutors. Also; what do most people get tutors for - maths or English or both?

I think you would be surprised with the number of schools offering extra-curricular activities such as music and drama. It is an area checked in Ofsted inspections, and any 'quick fixes' just before the inspection would be immediately exposed in the inspectors' meetings with the children. Most of our clubs take place at lunchtime, so children are free to do whatever they please after school.

I don't think I'd be surprised tricker, I do know some schools offer a lot & if you are lucky enough to live near one then make the most of it. But I doubt very much that most would match what seems to be normal at private schools - all boys doing hockey, rugby, cricket, athletics & swimming as part of the curriculum (girls doing equivalent girls sports) & extra curricular support for more practice at any/all of these if wanted; school drama productions (everyone gets some part) annually, again with more opportunities for drama after school/lunchtime clubs if wanted, everyone learning at least one instrument (& doing orchestra too) & singing in at least one choir as normal with many doing more (not counting recorder here) etc. etc.

If you were unlucky enough to be at a state school that offered virtually non of this & wanted to compensate in every way, imagine what you'd have to do outside school time: 4 or 5 sports clubs (OK fewer as it would be seasonal as to which you did, but still), stagecoach (or equivalent), a couple of music lessons a week. I just don't see how it could be done to be honest and that's before you've even thought about tutoring or academic stuff.

The school we are hoping ds has a place in has a swimming pool, archery club, all the normal sports teams, a climbing wall, fencing club, drama club, music, orchestra, chess, debating, design and technology, newspaper...... It's private though.

"..all boys doing hockey, rugby, cricket, athletics & swimming as part of the curriculum (girls doing equivalent girls sports).."

All the above sports are part of the NC, snorkle.
And not sure what you mean by 'equivalent girl sports' - both boys AND girls can and should take part in these as part of the primary NC.

Feenie, they're not done in the same way or to the same level at any of the local schools around here whether part of the NC or not. If you go to the local hockey club, for example, the coaches will have to start more or less from scratch with the children from state schools - county teams are hugely over-represented by independent children & I really doubt it's because they're innately better at sport, it's simply that they've had more opportunity. If the independent school plays the local state schools at any of these sports (which it does), the state children don't appear to be able to play to anything remotely approaching the same level and they either have to mix the teams up to have 'a fun afternoon of eg netball', or play their weakest side (D or E team) which works quite well too.

Girls tend to do netball instead of rugby and rounders insead of cricket, unless they're very strong minded at the independent. It might not be fair, but it's the way it is.

I run a netball team - it is mixed and we play all the other local primary schools. The standard is high.

I can't quite believe that netball is still seen as a girls' sport at primary level, in this day and age, tbh. Or that rugby/cricket are "boys'" sports. The great success in recent years of women's cricket teams (Yorkshire, for example) can't have anything to do with independent schools, then - dark ages, or what!

DD1's Y7 netball team beat local independent schools on several occasions this year. Although having said that, my primary reason for choosing a school for my DC is never going to be what position they occupy in the local rugby league.

Not wearing my glasses - I read

can state primary education plus torturing = equivalent of private?

Having attended both state and private, I would say there's more than a grain of truth in my slip though!

"I can't quite believe that netball is still seen as a girls' sport at primary level"

I assure you it is very much so at the independent school I have experience of (obviously not hugely representative, but when they've played other independent schools the teams have virtually always been single sex). I do know of the occasional girl who has muscled in to the boys sports teams in spite of the attempted segregation but not vice versa though there have been some ad hoc girls v boys games of netball for fun that I know of & the boys usually do very well indeed as they are very competative and have excellent generic transferable team game skills.

I would add that there are an unusually high number of boys at this school who opt to do dance (tap & ballet) and sing in more than the compulsory choirs & generally do stuff that's usually female dominated, so the sport segregation doesn't seem to produce macho boys.

Oh, I believed you. Just incredulous, that's all!

Feenie, here in Buckinghamshire (ugh) girls aren't allowed to play in the school football league - a matter of some annoyance to our HT who is really into ladies' football! (Also of some annoyance a couple of years ago when we had a girl who played for Arsenal youth!)

Snorkle, I think you will find that the expertise of children from state schools will be improving, as all children throughout the country should be receiving some sports training by professional coaches through the Primary Links programme.

Our school offers (as part of the school curriculum)rugby coaching (boys and girls) Cricket coaching boys and girls - provided by DCC) athletics coaching provided by local sports college swimming we have our own pool netball(boys and girls)dance (boys and girls) gymnastics (boys and girls) football (boys and girls) Last term we had a golf pro teaching the children one lesson per week.
We have a recorder club and a guitar club at lunchtime and children are taught clarinet, violin and flute (choice) we have a singing teacher who works with all children and an active choir. A debating club chess club, camera club, film club (making own short movies) gardening club.

Snorkle I think you are underestimating the standard of sports coaching available to state schools - we have coaching staff working with our children who (for their day job) coach national and international sportsmen and women.

mrz & tricker, I really do hope you are right. I'll admit I tend to think that it's the extras that set independent schools apart moreso than the academics, and although many people aren't that bothered about the extras I've come to think they might be more important than we credit them.

If state schools can provide the same sort of opportunities, that will be a huge step towards evening out the inequalities between the sectors imo.

mrz, just a hunch, but are there any Prep Schools within a 20 mile radius of you?

Oh, and do you live in a fairly affluent area?

thedolly - I should think much of the coaching by professionals at mrz's school is through Primary Links, as it is at ours. We have had: football, golf, street dance, tag rugby, multisports, tai kwan do, gymnastics and specialist gifted and talented coaching through this national programme.

thedolly there are prep schools within a 20 mile radius. Not sure how that is relevant??? and the school I teach in an area of social and economic deprivation (designated by the Gov.)

trickerg the coaching is mainly through something called Grassroots sport, also as you say Playing for success.

Still laughing at lowribs comment

For once an initiative that seems to be working without any major hitches! Definitely alive and well as far away as Yorks and Bucks, in KS1 and KS2!

thedolly - you sound as if you think that state schools are in competition with private schools! I think you need to realise that most people can't afford the £12000+ per child (see other post!) fees for a private school each year, so the fact that the local prep offers cricket and the local state school doesn't, would be of no relevance whatsoever.

Our state Primary has a lot extra clubs and lessons

German club
French club
Orchestra
Choir
Strings group
Recorder
Advanced Recorder
Brass band
Maths club
Art club
Rugby club
Tai kwan do
Running club
Football club
Netball club
Country dancing
Swimming
Music lessons
Drama club
Street dance
2 x plays a year everyone gets a part.
Gifted and talented groups go to the uni for extras

I forgot Guitar club and the yearly swimming gala.

ooh and Yoga for KS1

Another question then - does an all singing all dancing primary school in an area of social and economic deprivation have the same budget as the fairly mediocre one of which the OP writes?

Also, I'm generalising but I doubt that a person who is/was considering private school as an option lives in such an area of social and economic deprivation.

On a serious note I think that when posting about education and school provision it would be helpful if those involved in such provision were more 'transparent' about the exact nature of the schools in which they teach.

Our all singing all dancing non cricket playing primary is not in a deprived area. The Ofsted report describes it as satisfactory in some areas.

Ok - I teach in a city. About 60% of our children are on free school meals (government measure of socio-economic relevance) and about 30% are brown rice and sandals (as am I on occasion). Private schools are also in abundance here.

I did some Literacy consultancy work at the primary school of our local grammar. They drafted me in to help improve their Literacy curriculum. I was horrified at what parents paid £12,000 a year for and at how far behind the school was in terms of their subject knowledge and curriculum. They could, however, give value for money in terms of adult to child ratio - it made me wonder what our state school could achieve with the same ratio AND excellent teaching, subject knowledge, curriculum, etc.