can state primary education plus tutoring = equivalent of private?

[wheelsonthebus]

we planned to privately educate dc, but dh lost his job and now dc is going to a state primary - downgraded from good to satisfactory by ofsted . if we have dc tutored from yr 1 say, can we get up to standard of a private school(with a view to moving dc if our finances improve - possibly at 7, but definitely at 11). Can an hour a week really achieve anything? Anyone done this from early on? Interested in any views. I now work f/t so doing lots of stuff with dc after school myself is not really an option (except at weekends). I'd be interested to know when tutoring shd really start. My friend said her primary school gets great league table results but that's because most parents pay tutors. Also; what do most people get tutors for - maths or English or both?

By the same token, some posters should realise that some others live in areas where the state schools offer a poor range of extra curricular activities and perhaps a poor general standard of education and so they have chosen private.

Some posters work on the assumption that no-one can ever have a good reason for going private!!!

I agree Metalla. There is such a big difference between the schools, not everyone has access to one that is a 'good' or 'outstanding' school. Whilst this inequality exists then parents that can juggle their finances will opt out and go private.

I know Fluffy.

I can't understand choosing a private school if you live near a state school such as others on here have described. But sadly not all of us live in such areas.

I don't see how what I wrote in my original post in any way contradicts my subsequent posts Fluffy. You've obviously interpreted it differently from how I meant it.

Metella - I agree with you. What irritates me are the people who assume that private is automatically better than state without ever having visited a state school to see what it offers. I have come across this a fair bit, both on here and in RL.
Just recently, I was speaking to someone who has children at a local private school and who was saying how nice it was that at this school the children had very good manners, for instance holding doors open for adults and greeting them politely. She was implying that this was part of what they paid for because state school children do not do this.
But, in my children's school, and, I am sure, in many other state schools, they have ado exactly the same. In fact I often see older children going out of their way to hold doors open for younger children.

I think the problems comes when people were privately educated themselves, state schools are alien to them and they have no idea what they are like. Ours are very good and I can't see the point of paying when you get it free. They do very well in the league tables and no one pays for a tutor-they all think SATs a complete waste of time.I laugh at some posts on here-people are complaining about their DCs school and then you find they are actually paying for something they don't like!

To be honest, I've not seen children at ds's state school open doors for people LadyGlen, however, I didn't see it in the last private school he attended either. I try to raise my son to be considerate and respectful so I think it's more down to the parenting then the school to be honest. At his previous (private) school there were boys swearing (I overheard this) like it was normal, I had boys walk into me so I would have to walk onto the road to avoid them, the teachers stood by and did nothing. Private isn't always better. Manners and respect seem to be seriously lacking were we live, ds regularly opens door for people and he doesn't often recieve a thankyou (not that it's expected though), I've heard children in his current school call each other 'spastic', 'gay' 'boys that suck their mothers..' and far worse.

In that case FluffyBunny I would change the school! Do you have any options? It wouldn't be tolerated in any of the schools I supply teach in-and yes they all hold doors open-it is expected.

We're waiting to hear if he has a place in another school, we're going back into the private system. Ds has mild aspergers so doesn't always get what people are doing. We don't swear at home, he's learning alot of new words at school that he doesn't know the meaning of and is getting told off for repeating them. Bullying is a huge problem aswell. I have firm ideas in how I wish to raise my child, he's encouraged, supported and taught good manners. It's hard for a parent when the other children at his school put him down and bully him, it's not all of them but it's not for us.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=_chat&threadid=766890-I-need-your-help-again-I-39-m-so-sorry#15673811 this was the thread I started a while back about his school piscesmoon]]

doh!

Good luck-FluffyBunny-no DC should have to put up with that.

Thankyou. Darn school holiday's, we've been waiting to hear for a month now.

To be fair, Fluffy, you have had unusually bad luck both in the state and private sectors. I cannot speak for private schools, but the state school your DS now attends is not at all typical, as Piscesmoon says. While home life is important the culture of a school is also very important. There is a zero tolerance policy for swearing at the DDs' school and a very conscious emphasis on politeness. The same goes for all the other local primary schools that I know of, including one with a very 'challenging' catchment.

What does it matter if the are 2 years ahead or not, they cant leave school 2 years earlier.

My DD left her primary school with level 5 in english maths and science plus level 3 in spanish (top score availible, not sats).

Ds1 is in the same school and has had almost all the same teachers. He got a level 2a for english at the end of year 5. It depends on the child as much as the school.

The reason most of these private schools have good results is because children have to take an exam to get into them, so therefore they only take the bright children who are easy to teach.

Bright children are not easy to teach. Ds is very bright, bordom sets in really easily so he's not at all easy to teach. Keeping him interested is a job in itself.

I would never say that private is automatically better because anyone with half a brain would know that it's not true.

My dcs have been in both systems - there are good and bad points about each.

fluffybunny... if the curiculum is taught in an exciting manner children dont get board so easily.

My DS1 is not academic, however that does not mean he is not bright. The reason he is happy in school is because teaching is multi-layered and taught in a way which keeps it interesting.

However if a child is bright or should I say if a child finds the core subjects easy, they are more likely to do well in exams.

If schools have policies which only accept children who can pass exams it stands to reason that they will perform better on leauge tables.

This is not just private schools but gramar schools as well.

Not all bright children are difficult to teach. And not all difficult-to-teach children are bright.

Again, we are back to the inconsistencies between all the schools. Not all schools nor all lessons are taught the same. There is clearly a divide between the state schools in the UK, it's hardly surprising why parents seek an alternative way to educate their children.

To the OP - DS1 has just finished Y1 at the local state primary. I didn't know before he started school that the children are streamed according to ability from Y1 or earlier. The bright kids in the class are easily working to the Bond papers for their age group or higher (and Mumsnet tells me that Bond papers are what you need to look at for entry to the private sector). The school is used to children moving into the private sector and will tell parents whether their child is at the right level for our local ultra-competitive prep school, for example. If you feel your child is bright this might comfort you.

The others are not pushed to do work beyond their natural ability, or (much) beyond their natural inclination. If your child is lazy, or less bright, this will be not such good news. I would suggest you speak to the private school you have in mind about what they look for at 7+ before hunting for tutors.

'I think the problems comes when people were privately educated themselves, state schools are alien to them and they have no idea what they are like.'

Pisces - that's what worries me about most of the ministers of education we've had over the last 15 years!!

Fluffy - we've also seen inconsistencies in private schools as well throughout these posts! Sadly, I think you've made a general comment about schools, whether they be state or private.

fridayschild - good point. Sorry, what are Bond papers and where do you get them?

Friday's child.. I would be seriosly worried about a school which didnt push my child, no matter what their ability.

I wonder where the Every Child Matters document comes into that style of teaching.

My DS would be surely factory fodder in that kind of setting. He is dyslexic so he is not lazy or less bright, just has a specific learning difficulty.

No I don't think stateschool+tutoring will be the same as a private school. But this is not necessarily a bad thing, is it?

I know a teacher (whose opinion I trust) at a local independent school (one of the better ones locally, but not hugely academic) who tells me that the academic standards are about the same as the best local state primaries (there are a few very good ones) and that the extras are a little ahead of the best local primaries. Some of the parents of children here tell me the academic standard is about a year ahead of state primaries - either this is because they have rose tinted spectacles & a vested reason to think this, or because that's the difference between the best state primaries & the average or some combination of the two.

I would tend to agree that from an academic viewpoint, unless you are talking about a very highly academic private (perhaps offering Latin etc), that a little home input would easily compensate. This doesn't mean I think state + tutor (or home input) = private as you won't have the same experience. The more tutoring/extras you have to do outside school the lower the quality of the childs life imo (this may be offset by less travelling time to school of course). I'm reasonably sure that most private schools do offer far more in terms of sport, music and drama than most state ones, so a state educated child trying to compensate after school &/or in the holidays (which he get less of) may find themselves run ragged trying to fit it all in.