can state primary education plus tutoring = equivalent of private?

[wheelsonthebus]

we planned to privately educate dc, but dh lost his job and now dc is going to a state primary - downgraded from good to satisfactory by ofsted . if we have dc tutored from yr 1 say, can we get up to standard of a private school(with a view to moving dc if our finances improve - possibly at 7, but definitely at 11). Can an hour a week really achieve anything? Anyone done this from early on? Interested in any views. I now work f/t so doing lots of stuff with dc after school myself is not really an option (except at weekends). I'd be interested to know when tutoring shd really start. My friend said her primary school gets great league table results but that's because most parents pay tutors. Also; what do most people get tutors for - maths or English or both?

Quattrocento in what way worse qualifications?

There are good & bad teachers in both sectors and a few teachers I wouldn't want my children to have in both too. I think I have read somewhere that independent teachers are more likely to be Oxbridge educated yada yada, but that wont always make them better teachers. I also think teachers with less good classroom management skills will tend to migrate towards the private sector if they can. Most of the less good teachers I've run across in private schools have been sports teachers also teaching another subject, but there's only been one teacher I wouldn't want to teach my child & they were 'asked to leave' (& did so) according to the rumour mill. The regulation may be less formal, but in many cases still happens. Generally though, it will be difficult to get rid of poor teachers from any school if they haven't majorly transgressed as I'm sure most don't.

I would say my dcs have had some truly inspirational and brilliant teachers totally willing to go the extra mile and beyond as well. But I'm sure these beings exist at state schools too.

trickerg a degree and QTS isn't a legal requirement in PVI settings although it is in state schools.

I found the news last week that "Trainee teachers in key subjects such as maths and science are often poorly qualified and have not passed two A-levels" rather shocking to be honest.

link here

snorkle I think that point is getting lost in this discussion - there are good and not so good teachers/schools in both systems - I do think that some parents assume because they are paying for it that it will automatically be superior and unlike Quattrocento won't have checked and in some cases won't be 100% sure of what they are looking for if they do check. It's also very easy in both sectors to be seduced by what you are being told and that doesn't always transfer into reality for your child.
IMHO if your child is happy and achieving to the best of their ability then why worry about other people...

MANATEEequineOHARA "The seriously inadequate 'teachers' at the private school where my dcs went were racist in a rather horribly nazi-disguised-as-hippy way. That is very horrible".

My DH works in private and state schools, and finds that many of the staff at the private schools have led the most sheltered of lives. Often they've spent almost their whole life at that school, first as a student, then as a teacher. With very little experience of the world.
They really are in their own little bubble.

I agree with something Greensleeves said earlier about education vs business.
the relationship with the parents at private schools seems a little odd and less open. I guess because they are "customers".

I agree it is shocking but students with good maths and science qualifications can earn far far more in other professions than they can teaching so those with A levels don't choose to train to teach.
Also many more people are attending university and gaining degrees (sometimes in obscure subjects) and drift into a teaching degree. Look at all the Government advertising - "ok you've served in the army ... want to be a teacher?" or "sorry you lost your job in the city.. want to be a teacher?"

I am also intrigued as to how Quattro went about checking out the academic qualifications of the teachers in the schools she was considering.
I do know however that several of the teachers in my DCs' school are doing part time MAs.

All the secondary schools I've looked at (in both sectors) provide a list of teachers including their qualifications so you can check what qualifications they have.

At primary level I've only seen the private sector produce such a list.

Interesting, Aspasia. Our local state secondary does not do this. I didn't know any state schools did.

Oh! Maybe we are unusual then, Lady Glencora?

This was last year (ahead of the game - ds is only going into Y6 in September ).

I really don't see the relevance of the teachers degree score. They all have them so who cares where it is from. An Oxford degree does not make a good teacher.

Of course, this was a year ago and I don't have access to the prospectuses at the moment (am at work) so I could be talking through my hat.

Ignore me - as you were!!!!!

You might be interested in this taken from a piece of research undertaken for a teaching union last year... it refers to early years so should not be seen as a universal situation

"In particular, not only are the general levels
of training, skills and working conditions of staff in PVI settings far lower than in the maintained sector, very few PVI settings employ qualified teachers. These problems are compounded by the inadequate levels of
qualified teacher input many PVI settings receive from local authorities.
The combination of low pay, low skill and lack of qualified teacher input in the PVI sectors mean that children?s mathematics learning in such settings is disadvantaged to a considerable extent in comparison with their peers in better managed resource and staff settings within the maintained sector."

I asked! It was freely available from the independent schools and available upon enquiry from the state schools. I had to push a bit with one school though.

You can find stats that say most stuff mrz.

Try this from the Sutton Trust that found...

The main qualification of nearly three-quarters of teachers in independent schools is a subject degree compared with just over 60 per cent of the teachers in maintained schools.
Teachers in independent schools are more than twice as likely to have been awarded a first. Over 60 per cent have at least an upper-second compared with 45 per cent of the teachers in maintained schools.
Teachers in independent schools are five times more likely to hold a PhD as their highest qualification. Nearly a quarter of independent school teachers have obtained a higher degree, against 16 per cent of teachers in maintained schools.

& so on.

What does PVI stand for?

PVI Private Voluntary Independent

Wow - haven't come across that before. Surely all private schools are voluntary?

It seems to me that the derisory comments on this thread are almost all aimed at private schools.
Clearly most people here feel that the state schools are doing an excellent job. I can't see why the supporters of state schools feel such a need to defend them when everyone's pointing out their significant strengths.
I'm not sure we need to vilify private schools and everyone in them in order to point out the greatness of state education. After all, we all have access to a superb state sector - if we don't like the private sector, it doesn't matter, no one's going to force us through the doors!

Wise words, daisydancer.

Disingenuous hogwash, daisydancer

Have you consdered counselling?

A little unfair Greensleeves, I'm also a very happy, confident state school teacher!

That's good, but I was referring to your post, not your job

This notion that the quality of state system is unaffected by the existence of the private sector is clearly nonsense. If the pushy driven middle-class parents who are duped (IMO) into paying for education did not have this option, then the state system truly would be for everybody, and all schools and all children would benefit.