can state primary education plus tutoring = equivalent of private?

[wheelsonthebus]

we planned to privately educate dc, but dh lost his job and now dc is going to a state primary - downgraded from good to satisfactory by ofsted . if we have dc tutored from yr 1 say, can we get up to standard of a private school(with a view to moving dc if our finances improve - possibly at 7, but definitely at 11). Can an hour a week really achieve anything? Anyone done this from early on? Interested in any views. I now work f/t so doing lots of stuff with dc after school myself is not really an option (except at weekends). I'd be interested to know when tutoring shd really start. My friend said her primary school gets great league table results but that's because most parents pay tutors. Also; what do most people get tutors for - maths or English or both?

We do a lot of exercise as a family already, lots of cycling swimming sailing windsurfing kayaking, skating hiking etc. Dp is a windsurf instructor in his spare time, so we all have high activity levels irrespective of what a school can offer.

But also one of the things I like about using local state schools is that there is more chance of being able to walk or cycle to them, which is one of our absolute priorities when choosing a school (for fitness and for eco reasons), to me that daily exercise as part of the normal routine is more important than competitive sport (but that could be because I'm bad at competitive sport and don't like to have to compete in things I can't win ).

I detest competitive sport (either participating in it or watching it). However, I am glad that my DCs are getting the opportunity to loathe (or even like) it at school too!!

If yours is anything like my primary, Fennel, there will be loads of opportunity for walking, but not much uptake. They will even drive there 30 minutes before the end of school to make sure they get a parking place right outside.

Our county has an initiative called Golden Boot so that the children can nag their parents into letting them walk.

I don't know if it is because I am German and don't understand cricket but the thought of playing it for two hours a day every day at school sounds absolutely hellish.

Vinblanc, I can assure you that DD has plenty of text books availible at her school to complement the technology that is availible now and being built on for the future. Here is a link to the school explaining what is being done. Building work is well under way so it is not just a pipe dream that is not going to happen.

I really cant believe you think I would make all this up.

www.broughtonhall.com/bsf.shtml

You will probably think Ive searched the internet now to find a school that gives all pupils free laptops.

It would be my idea of hell as well, Emkana, but DS's idea of heaven. I think he plays cricket six or seven times a week in the summer term (two or three of those are not school related). Strange things, boys.

What do you mean by 'plenty of text books'? One between two in class, one each per class but have to stay in school for other classes, or a text book issued to an individual.

To me, plenty means that a pupil gets their own text book. From what I understand of the new GCSE and Key State 3 courses, this is essential. I intend to buy text books when my children are in secondary.

DD has informed me that sometimes she does have to share text books when she is in class for certain subjects such as science, as there are so many different textbooks that they use.

Other lessons such as Spanish and maths they have their own text books.

They also get handouts and dont need to share them and homework and revision is often set online so they dont usually need to bring them home.

The case of sharing text books has gone since before the introduction of laptops so I dont think that pupils have had to substitute laptops for books.

DD is not in key stage 4 yet so I cant comment on how things will be at that stage. But I really cant see that sharing a text book is less beneficial than every child having access to a computer and using them in most lessons.

wooah, this thread still going strong & everyone's as entrenched as ever in their views, I see .

but to pick up on a few points...

I've heard that about state schools generally having better ICT facilities due to better funding from a reliable source (ICT teacher, with children in both sectors). Private schools have a lot of pressure on their funds & many strive hard to keep fees as low as they can, & do often do prioritise showier stuff like swimming pools to draw people in (actally, I know several independent schools with seriously underused swimming pools - a total waste).

Sympathise (while disagreeing on solution) with greensleeves (even though she thinks I'm warped & irresponsible!) & fennel & can understand why the independent sector irritates them. I had suspected they might be in such a circumstance it explains some of the vitriol. I don't think abolishing independent schools is the answer - where next? Abolish home ed, private tuition, ballet lessons, moving house to be nearer better schools? The natural progression is communism. And what does it solve? You will never have equality in education between schools - the gap between the best & worst state schools is far larger than the gap between independent & state schools (which is negative in many cases), but I would be very wary of letting the state dictate how education should happen. Striving to raise standards, especially in the lowest achieving schools is the way forward - contrary to their opinion, most people in independent ed will vote with their feet if this happens.

"Serious question - can you be sporty AND academic at private schools?" Yes, it happens a lot, some add music and drama to the list as well. Success breeds success to a degree & lots of children find they are talented in many areas. 2 hours cricket every day is not my experience - 2 afternoons a week of sport with perhaps a morning PE lesson to is about the limit of compulsory sport at the school I know most about - extra lunchtime/after school opportunities for those who want it.

"It would be a mistake to assume that those of us here who have chosen state schools have never been inside a private school or met children from private schools" It would also be a mistake to assume that those of us here who have chosen private schools have never been inside a state school or met children from state schools. I regularly work with children from both sectors and have also worked in both types of school. I've met both unpleasant and delightful children from both.

Could I just ask, how long is the typical day at a private school?

The school my friend's child attends is 9.00-3.00 in pre prep (Y2 9.00-3.25)
and prep is 8.30 - 4.10 plus a supervised homework session 4.25 - 5.25

I don't think my posts on this thread have been remotely vitriolic. A preference for state education can come from a different political perspective, a different set of core values.

It doesn't necessarily come from envy (we could have afforded private education for our children if we'd chosen to do so) or chippiness (I am very happy with my own educational background).

Fennel I apologise - the 'vitriol' remark was probably uncalled for and in any case was ment to be aimed at greensleeves for her rather tactless blinkered outspokeness. I was trying to sympathise with her and your position & unfortunately managed to lump the two of you together.

My sympathies were not ment to imply that you were envious either - rather that I can see in situations where very large numbers of middle class parents opt to send their children to private school it can have a negative impact on the state ones - generally I find the idea that if my kids went to the local state school things there would be improved rather laughable.

I don't think anyone has been vitriolic, have they?

This is one of those subjects that's really really hard to discuss either on here or in RL because for some reason private school parents get so upset and defensive at the suggestion that not everyone thinks that their choice is the best one in all circumstances. I suppose that generally, private school parents are in such a minority that they have to draw up the barricades. And also, if you make a choice that is so different from the norm you feel the need to justify it - sadly sometimes by attacking others who make different choices. Hence accusations of envy, chippiness and, in extreme cases, not caring about the education of one's children!

I used to think state education was terrible because that is what the private 'school' we were at led us to believe. I now see that is because they are seriously inferior and therefore feel the need to slag off state education to meake themselves feel better.

That said, I would choose private again if I could afford it and if it seemed the best choice, but I would not be so quick to disregard state in future, ds has done brilliantly there and I can't imagine what he would get out of private school or 'tutoring' that he doesn't have already!

Actually, I think there has been some vitriol on this thread, I was thinking particularly about "I wouldn't let my children within twenty miles of some of the inarticulate antisocial charlatans I've come across teaching in private schools - they would be laughed out of the interview in any decent state school", which is a totally offensive remark in my book.

The bile directed in this and other comments towards private school teachers is based on stereotypes and supposition and is as horrible as racism in my opinion.

I haven't read the whole thread but I have several friends who are teachers (senior teachers and an Ofsted Inspector) and they have very little good to say about the largely unregulated private school sector. There opinions are not based on myth or stereotype but experience.

You get good and bad everywhere but just because you pay for something doesn't mean it will be better.

I was in legal practice for many years and had clients offer to pay me rather than accept legal aid as they thought they would get a better service . Madness!

Professionals, wherever they are, if they do a good job, will teach well.

Personally, I think a rounded education, not one geared towards 'teaching to the test' is what a child needs.

Yes, lots of vitriol from me

I stand by the remark you singled out Hmmmhmmhmm, I HAVE met some shockingly inadequate individuals "teaching" in private schools and they would have no chance of getting a job in the state sector, because the state sector has standards and regulation, and the private sector doesn't

pmsl at "as horrible as racism"

tough shit

I agree there are some bad teachers in the private sector, I disagree that most are bad though. Don't you think there are bad teachers in the state sector as well?

The seriously inadequate 'teachers' at the private school where my dcs went were racist in a rather horribly nazi-disguised-as-hippy way. That is very horrible.

that place is a particularly chilling example

I can't believe those people call themselves teachers

It just shows how very unregulated private education is. While I disagree with government set targets and such like, I think as far as schools go, I would far rather be boardering on over-regulated than under-regulated.

I hardly think that a Steiner loonybin can be held up to be an example of a typical private school set-up

There are some shockingly bad teachers in state schools too - ds1 suffered at the hands of one of them and was the direct reason why he transferred to the private sector, but that doesn't mean I slag off all state school teachers - ds2 and dd had fantastic teachers at their state primary last year - I don't see how they could be improved, unfortunately the same can't be said of the teachers they're getting this year ...

I'm also not generalising from my own experience as that would just be stupid. Just because mrz's school for example has fantastic extra-curricular provision etc it doesn't mean that every state school does - or even most of them as far as I can tell from the schools attended by my dc and my friends' dc

One thing that I've learned from scouring around the local schools is that all regulatory bodies are not particularly good - whether it be Ofsted or Isis.

I have no idea why or how the prejudices against private school teachers have arisen. One of the things I checked out in selecting the schools was the academic qualifications of the teachers. Which were substantially different, with generally speaking the state schools having people with worse academic qualifications. This is only true of the comparisons of the three or four schools that I made, and possibly the difference cannot be extrapolated across the wider population. Or possibly it can. I dunno.

The teaching skillset required at secondary level must be hugely different between selective and non-selective schools - I would imagine.

How did you go about finding out the academic qualifications of the teachers? I'm not even sure my colleagues know my qualifications! One thing I do know for sure is that we're all educated to degree level as that's a requirement for the job.