is private REALLY better?

[ChuppaChups]

just out of interest, i would appreciate some OPINIONS on this area as i am seriously considering the move to private from state. The main reason being is we are now financially able to do so.

So, is it better and why?

Thanks

That's a good point elvis. My dcs primary school had 3 orchestras (two for all comers, one for the better players) and 4 choirs (again only one done on ability) and some recorder and flute & jazz groups (on whether or not you did lessons in school on those instruments) & some string quartets & trios (on ability). It was a good mix - everyone could participate in a lot and the very good players (some were very advanced musically for their ages) could have the experience of playing in a group at an appropriate level. I don't think many schools offer that much music though.

verygreenlawn - I had the same experience, a crap comprehensive education where the ethos of the school was such that there were effectively no aspirations for the students. I was Dux of my school (hmm, Scottish thing? Don't know of there's an equivalent) and yet when I told my headmaster I'd got into a good university his immediate reaction was: "What? You?".

I think teachers and parents often don't realise how vital it is that someone who wants to go on to university or whatever has support leading up to it and back home when they begin, too. TBH I would, at secondary level, pay for that sort of support if I thought it was lacking in a state school - depends on the school.

Primary's a different thing, though.

Disagree with the view that private is pointless at primary level. If we had left dd in the state system we would have had a very different child performing way below where she is now.

Pruneurs - one thing of interest to add, the primary school I went to was fantastic, and I do strongly believe that that made a difference. My mum and dad were strict believers in going to your nearest school - it was good luck that my nearest primary was great, bad luck that my nearest comp. was rubbish.

After qualifying, I spent some time mentoring teens who wanted to go into the professions but were from disadvantaged backgrounds, and the lack of support some of them had was truly shocking. Yet my firm's vacation scheme was filled every year over with the children of friends of friends of the partners, most of whom had had every advantage in life (not necessarily privately educated but certainly well-connected). It was utterly heartbreaking.

Anyway, I digress - but it's something that hacks me off to this day.

my dds in orivate sector from start , our reasons as follows:

small classes ( max 14 in pre prep, 16 in prep)
no mixed years ( as goes on in ALL our local state schools)
early exposure to languages
the teachers do not have to follow national curriculum
no sats
very high expectations and standards of behaviour.
children appear more self-confident/articulate/polite ( this is commented on by adults alot about my dds)
whole school ethos , i.e daily assemblies, certificates and house systems /points for good work/effort etc.
no cruising along for children who are quiet and well behaved ( sometimes think these are neglected in state system)
huge range of oportunities do learn outside of set curriculum ( said htis laready) at dds' school they do gardening, music , riding, humanities,classics etc etc.
competitive sport every day.

for all the above ( and the gorgeous poncetastic uniform) it is worht the considerable expense

BUT .... I know that a really good state primary can give alot of htis aswell, and it is perhaps more important at secondary level, and that ther are many dire private schools just not worth the money so look hard and think carefully

"no cruising along for children who are quiet and well behaved ( sometimes think these are neglected in state system)"

That was me at school. I am sure half my teachers wouldn;t have known who I was. I got on with my work, ewas well behaved, was not top f the class but equally wasabove middle/average - so I caused no problems or issues for the teacher. And in a big class, this is the kind fo child who can get missed or frgotten about. Hence I wasn't pushed or anything, cruised along, remained shy and quiet, and I guess never truely reached my full potential.

When I was teachign I tried really hard to ensure this didn't happen, but sometimes you do find yourself doing it. Time is spent dealing with those who need extra help (at both ends of scale) and those who need behaviour checking. You end up grateful for the quiet cruisers - and it really does mean you have tomake extra effort not to forget them.

BA - Is homogeneity of pupils where you put them all in a big blender?

re: class sizewww.classsizeresearch.org.uk/cs%20psychology.pdf

hula - you have validated my thoughts on this - thanks. i do not think that state teachers do this on purpose but in a class of 30 + i owudl imagine that time is spent at either end of the spectrum and the middle can be lef tto their own devices abit. think my dd1 would probably be like this

I went to a lovely, small (10 kids in my year group) state school in the village I lived in, then a larger, not great state secondary. I was always very interested in music and drama, and already had private piano and singing lessons, but because it was the 80s, and teachers were striking every other week, I had no way of getting involved with extra-curricular activities. So I joined a choir at the closest (but highly prestigious, not that I realised that aged 14) private school. To me, it was a different world - amazing facilities, including a theatre and concert hall. I ended up in two choirs there, and was able to be in numerous dramatic productions (it was a boys school, so girls were always bussed in from elsewhere. I was the only state school kid though) So in a way, I got the best of both worlds. Despite the middle-of-the-road results churned out by my secondary school, I did pretty well, and then moved to an excellent state 6th Form College (6th in the country in terms of results that year, far outstripped several private schools in the same town) My point, though, if I stop rambling, is that I don't credit the private school itself with my achievements and the enjoyment I gained, but my parents. They saw that I wanted to get involved in something, researched solutions to the problems, and provided me with the opportunities I needed. My dad is opposed to private education, morally (please don't ask me to justify that - his opinion, not mine) but he still ferried me back and forth to choir practice and play rehearsals several times a week. If parents are behind children, it matters far less which type of school they go to. I really do believe that.

It depends entirely on the school. State schools (on the whole) do their best, but there is a lot to be said for class sizes such that teachers have the chance to know, understand and cater for each child as an individual. My test is always to sit back and listen at parents evening - if the teacher is describing the child I know, then I am comfortable that they know and understand my child.

We sort of got 'stuck' in the private system as DS is now a year ahead, but a friend who is the head of a (highly selective) private school told us that he does not see huge differences between an intelligent 11yo from a half-decent state school and one from a private school. His contention is that it is after 11 that the gulf widens (and he is not just blowing his own trumpet, as his school includes prep and pre-prep). His advice to anyone who can just afford private eduction is to save the money for senior school (as long as you can find and access a half-decent state option, of course)

I know it shouldn't be the case mummydoc, but with the best will in the world a teacher can only do so much at any one time. In primary where there are As it will be a better ituation. I was a secondary school teacher though with no TAs, so I was no superwoman and couldn't possibly deal ith 30 children all the time, every lesson. Getting the balance right for all children is a challenge.

I was that child. I know how important it is for a teacher to try and avoid it happening.

Hulababy - here in France class sizes are quite large (30 in pre-school, 25 in primary, 30 in secondary), mixed ability and there are very few assistants. It is very easy indeed for quiet, undemanding, relatively high-performing children to get totally overlooked by the teacher(s).

We find, like other parents, that the best way to overcome this is to make sure we see teachers and headteachers regularly, are sympathetic to their concerns and POVs while making enough useful but not annoying noise to ensure that our children are at the front of their minds! A lot of appreciation and understanding of the difficulties French teachers face also goes a long, long way in getting our children noticed!

smallwhitecat - in this instance, I was just reporting the advice as I was given it. I am not honestly sure if I agree or not. My DB2 went largely through state primaries and went on to do better academically than either DB1 or me (DM is a teacher though and did 'fill in' some gaps), but I cannot imagine my DS being given quite the flying start that he has had in any of our local state primaries. That seems unfair since I don't know the schools, really, but when I compare him to his contemporaries at (for instance) Beavers he has a different attitude and approach to life which I do think comes at least in part from school.

I have switched mine from Private to state, class sizes were too small... not enough choice of friends. The state school does get outstanding and my six year old was finishing a 4pm, now 3.15 and he's much happier.

seems that private v state stirs up strong views.

Well, we have decided to go for private.

Thanks for thoughts, very imformative.

I have neices that went to one of the most expensive private schools in the country....they both left with FA quals.

OP - good luck with your choice. Hope it proves well for you and your DC

good luck with it op, I have two in independent, one yr 4, one yr 10 - worth every penny imo.

IMO private offers a modern day grammar system for children who would get lost/bored in a comp. Having said that, we have found that our G&T DD would not have coped in state beyond year 2. I think the longer a bright child is left in state, the more they will fall behind their potential.
Ask yourself where you think your DC would be happiest. Are they content in state? Private is not for everyone, but those it suits best will thrive!

"I think the longer a bright child is left in state, the more they will fall behind their potential"

That's outrageous! What a horrible thing to say. Presumably that's why students in state schools never get A*s at all. Oh, hang on...

But you are talking about GCSE levels I presume (A*)
Just because a primary child gets A's on their report, doesn't mean to say they are stretched! DH spent many years in state primary with teachers admitting to his parents that the only way they could ever stretch him was to take up music. He spent the whole of his primary life (before going to grammar then oxbridge) bored because with 30 in a class teachers just don't have the time to help the brighter ones!
Am I really wrong to want better for DD? IMO bored=unhappy.

karise - as already said there are good and bad schools in both sectors. Private doesn't always mean good, and vice versa. However, I am pleased you have found the right school for your child. I hope the OP is able to do the same.

"I think the longer a bright child is left in state, the more they will fall behind their potential."

Well, no hope for 93% of the population then!

By the way, ChuppaChups - the state system seems to have done pretty well by your dd up to now, hasn't it?