is private REALLY better?

[ChuppaChups]

just out of interest, i would appreciate some OPINIONS on this area as i am seriously considering the move to private from state. The main reason being is we are now financially able to do so.

So, is it better and why?

Thanks

Why are people assuming that there is neither streaming nor discipline in state schools?

Sorry, thought it was normal not to have streaming- it's all mixed ability in our area as far as I know!

Parents now seem to dish out the discipline too. Teachers are always running the risk of being taken to court or having their car scratched aren't they?

There isn't a secondary school I know that doesn't have setting or streamiong for some subjects. My dd is in set 4 of 7 for maths!

All secondary schools in my area stream and most if not all have behavioural units

oh well there you go then.
I am only at the stage of looking into primary school age. The class sizes are massive, they could be smaller.

Obviously "throwing money" at the state system is not the complete answer, but applying finances intelligently has to be part of it.

Sadly people are not "free to do as they wish" in the matter of school "choice" - far from it. That's the whole point...

Throwing money at problems is never the answer, it's like sticking a plaster on an arterial bleed. There is no equality in our schools (I'm sure I've said this before), it's down to luck/money/faith what your child ends up with, there's no equality in this. Whilst our schools are like this then the private sector will always have anxious and despirate parents willing to hand their money over, there will always be parents on the opposite side of this who are unable to do this for their child. It's a complex situation and is going to require alot more then money to fix.

Investing in education, thinking long term rather than short term is always going to be better than doing nothing at all.

Trouble is there isn't much in it for the person who decides to do so.

and my ds is very definitely on the extension table in year 4.It's called red table, and the others are green, blue, yellow and orange but everyone knows that they are ability groups They may not call it setting or streaming but they all do it.

I think a fundamental misunderstanding many people have of comprehensive education and of state primaries is that they all use mixed ability teaching.

Throwing money at problems in my experience is the best way to solve them.

There are few problems that can't be solved by wither throwing money or killing someone. Or sometimes both.

It's "differentiation" isn't it? Not streaming but not total mixed ability either.

haha

I agree.

(with Seeker)

I think it depends on your reasons for the investment Marsha. I don't think you can put a price on your child's wellbeing. If you get to a point where you don't consider this to be worthwhile then it's time to look elsewhere. People have so many motives when they opt for a private school, some want their children to mix with a 'better class of people', others so their children can learn to network.

Investing in education is far more then financial, you make a commitment to that school, promising to send your child on time, in a school uniform with homework completed etc. It is hard for a parent but it's something our parents did for us (most parents anyway) so we in return do this for our children. We have already recieved our reward (some of us ).

I meant the government investing in education btw not individual parents.

It can be such a long game to get returns that the short term politicians find it too difficult or not worth while enough to tackle.

The hospital where I live has just 'invested' £25,000 for self watering plant pots in the gardens.

oh well at least they don't have to pay some one to do it

Money is wasted all the time, for sure.

Yes, but they are outside and we don't exactly live in a dry country!

Investment's good if it's going to be used in a beneficial way. My son told me last week that some of the worksheets he's been given at school had been recycled (anwsers from another child had been rubbed out/tipex'd over before he had been given the sheet).

I like the concept of grammar schools, and I think that the top quartile of the population ought to have access to them!

What is the difference between setting and streaming?

It's not the top quarter of the population if they have been tutored to pass the exam, if it was fair for all children it would be better.

So what do you propose, fluffybunny? Remove all children from their parents as their cords are cut and bring them up away from any possible parental input that could possibly increase their life opportunities?

The very best example we can show as parents is that nurture works!

The trouble with grammar schools is that in the areas where they exist 78% of children don't go to them!

DfES study fails to give full support to setting by ability

Setting pupils by ability, one of the most widely-trailed parts of the education white paper, has few benefits, a study funded by the Department for Education and Skills has concluded.

There is no evidence that streamed or set classes produce, on average, higher performance than mixed-ability classes, said the report. It also found that setting pupils is already widespread, particularly in maths.

The white paper calls for more grouping and setting of students by ability and says, "grouping students can help to build motivation, social skills and independence; and most importantly can raise standards because pupils are better engaged in their own learning".

The study by the universities of Brighton, Sussex, Cambridge and London university's institute of education, agrees that grouping children within classes, common in primary schools, may have the potential to raise standards, but it stresses that there is no known way of grouping pupils which will benefit all students. It says the debate between setting and mixed-ability teaching has become polarised and does not reflect what happens in schools where a wide range of ways of grouping pupils is used.

In secondary schools, where many assign pupils to classes for particular subjects based on ability, there is no academic advantage for most pupils in being set according to ability or taught in a mixed-ability class.

Gifted and talented pupils are believed to make more progress in a separate ability group. But for pupils in low-ability groups, the process could mean poorer teaching and a limited curriculum leading to pupils making less progress and becoming demotivated. The review concluded: "There are no significant differences between setting and mixed-ability teaching in overall attainment? but low-achieving pupils show more progress in mixed-ability classes and high-achieving pupils show more progress in set classes."

Three of the studies that made up part of the review noted that middle-class parents supported ability grouping. In primary schools about a quarter of maths classes and a seventh of English classes are set according to ability, but setting barely exists in other curricular subjects.

The effects of pupil grouping literature review is available at www.dfes.gov.uk/research. For more information see www.workingwithothers.org