INFANT CLASS SIZE PREJUDICE- YOU CAN WIN!

[custardpants]

I have just won an appeal and overcome the class size prejudice rule, based on inaccuracies on behalf of the council. i suggest to anyone out there, keep fighting you can win and get in contact with your local MP who can also work with you and give you information on how to approach these things. County Councils will tell you there is no point appealing and will say no appeals get upheld on the infant class size prejudice rule. please keep hope, if you have the right information and tackle in the right way you CAN win. I WANTED TO MAKE OTHER PARENTS AWARE THAT IT IS NOT A POINTLESS BATTLE- YOU CAN BEAT THE ADMISSIONS AUTHORITY AS QUITE OFTEN THEY DO NOT IMPLEMENT THE ADMISSION ARRANGEMENTS CORRECTLY, PARENTS ARE NOT GIVEN THIS INFORMATION SO PLEASE REQUEST FROM YOUR LOCAL MP WHO CAN HELP YOU!

i am amazed to hear that all schools dont have tas - that is news to me - the schools here all do and they are state not a rich area

i dont think tas get paid loads - perhaps we should campaign that it is the norm

All schools will have TAs, but not all classes.

In a single form entry school, even an over-subscribed one with a healthy budget, you are unlikely to find a TA per class, unless they are assigned to one child.

TAs get paid peanuts, as I expect some will come and tell you soon!

Peanuts????

I dream of getting paid peanuts. Just the crumbs from the packet here...

What melissa 75 said.

DD's class has 33 kids. Has had 33 kids for 2 years, no dropping out or moving on.... no 'calming down!'

33 kids and one teacher.

No TAs.

Have you ever been a parent helper in a class with 33 kids and one teacher?

Tis a 'mare and no mistake.

We were in same position as fallenmadonna. Had to fight for a place at our nearest, local, catchment school.

Speaking as someone who didn't get a school place from our LA well done
I'm a bit shocked at the atitude of some on here custardpants dc has as much right to be in that class as all the other children and will be no more damaging to the education of others as the child closest to the school or second closest or third etc etc.
I'd rather have my child in a class of 35 in some schools than one of 15 in some of the others

Just out of interest OP what were the errors was it distance? and UQD was it just distance to the next school or where there other grounds?

Our situation was that we moved (2 miles up the road) after applying, so we got a place at the nearest school which was no longer the nearest school by then!

So we applied to transfer, were turned down on the grounds that the school was "full", appealed, were rejected, used the other school for a couple of terms (at great inconvenience), appealed again and got it. There were 33 in the class for a bit but it didn't bother us.

Three people left over the course of the year anyway. People get far too hung up on this class size business.

Thanks UQD
Am I right to presume that your second appeal was a different calendar year from your first?
Are you able to say what you think it was that allowed them to overule the prejudice to the school when presumably you had an adequate school place to start with
Agree that people get too hung up about distance what is so magic about 30 vs 29 or 31?
Reading this again I can only assume that most of the people here got an acceptable school place for their child

It was a different academic year, which is the rule.

I think we argued it better the second time! We were helped by the fact that there was a staggered entry into Reception and we were looking at the numbers in KS1 as a whole.

Yes, I so think it's very easy to criticise people for appealing when you already have the school place you want.

Thanks

I am APPALLED (and yes, I mean to shout) at some of the comments here.

The OP's child missed out on a place because the council made a mistake. So what should she have done? Should she have said, oh well, never mind, mistakes happen let's just accept the place at the crap school (assuming she was offered a place at all).

All those criticisng her, is that what YOU would have done? I think not.

Good on you custardpants, you did the right thing for your child.

I work in a mixed R/Yr1 class of 20 (12reception + 8 yr1).There is one child with any sort of sn and 2 adults in teh class all the time.The work with reception children has to be done in small groups and my mind boggles as to how much input you could give each child in a class of 30+ reception children.

My point exactly katiestar - (but got carried away with the caps!)

How much input can you give? The answer is, not enough - especially if it is a mixed year group.

It may not be a 'problem' for some of the parents on here, but perhaps they should be asking the teacher of the 33 children if s/he considers it a problem.

I've seen a class with 33 kids in it - and the excellent teacher struggling against sheer weight of numbers.

Of course the OP hasn't told us how many kids will be in the class...In fact, we don't really know much about the situation.

I just hope the OP doesn't have a 'magnolia' child (ie the quiet one, the middle of the road kid, the no-trouble kid, the kid that blends into the background). They are the ones that suffer most in an overcrowded class.

The law says you need to have an additional teacher (or TA?) if the class is over 30 - specifically to address the problem above. Or split the class - not always possible in small primary schools with limited classroom space.

Ooh - a real time debate! This is as close to MSN as I'm ever going to get....

Ah yes - but in a small school with say less than 100 kids, they can't afford another teacher. And exactly, there is no space, so classes can't be split.

As I said, don't know the OP's full story, but this 'class size prejudice rule' is there for a reason.

Sure, it sounds like it can be 'got around' but at what cost?

30 is too big. There are 18 in my son's class, that's plenty. It's hard to offer needed support to young children if there are dozens of them.

The appeal balances the needs of the individual against the needs of the many. Which is really the key question here.

We need to remember we're not talking about 18 vs 30 we're presumably talking about 30 vs 31.
A child going to a local school or one parents feel is the best for their child just as passionately as people with a place or perhaps even more so if they are so prepared to fight for it vs what? a school in special measures/no school/maybe being bussed for over 1 hour accross London.

I thought the class size prejudice rule was a typical gov. soundbite like 4 hour wait like patient/parent choice like so many things.

Is anyone aware of research showing severe damage to childrens education in classes of 31 vs 30?

It was a Labour manifesto commitment to get class sizes down to 30 or below at KS1. All very nice in theory, but what if this means turning away kids for whom that is their nearest school?

I wrote to Helen Jackson, my MP at the time, and suggested to her that this manifesto commitment was incompatible with the other stated Labour policy of encouraging children to walk to school. If you haven't been "allocated" (how gracious) a school within walking distance, you can't walk to it. She actually agreed with me that this was a contradictory pair of policies. I got far more sense out of her than I did from Miliband, who was schools minister at the time.

The appeal panel is always made up of experienced educationalists and they should be well aware of the issues. It's all about balance.

1dilema - I am not worried about 31 in a class personally but our headmaster is...
because there is 31 enrolled for the year below they have had to split my son's year apart AND the year above to be able to teach them all.
If they had stayed at 30 then the 40 people in year 2 would be with their year group the 26 in DS1's class would stay together with their friends and the 30 children in reception would have a straight reception year - gently introducing them into school.

It is not a good situation for anyone but one extra child can make a HUGE difference to lots of children.

Where in this thread does it say that Custardpants DC only missed out on a place by administrative error? I can't see where she says why her child was initially turned down, or is it where she talks about "admission arrangements" not being implemented correctly : what does that mean in real English?.

There are two grounds for an appeal at KS1. One is "class size prejudice" and the other is incorrect application of the admission rules.

I agree with furrycat and UQD. I too am shocked by some of the comments on here.

We also won our appeal because the LEA had incorrectly calculated the distance between our nearest school and our home. They allocated us a place at a school in another town which we had no way of getting to. Should I have just accepted this? I am sure that every single one of you would appeal if you found yourself in this situation.

it was due to the fact my child should have been admitted, but due to the council miscalculating the distance and consistent errors on their part we won a place. Councils make consistent errors however because they tell parents they will lose the appeal many do not even get to the appeal stage. My child has an equal right to attend our local school and not one miles away with no viable transport. I truly believe that councty councils feel they can make as many errors as they like with no come back. This is not the case and i hope any parent who has a justisfied case does win. Thanks for your support Hana. And for those of you who dont want my kid in your class if over 30 speak to your local council who made the error in the first place allowing this to happen!