parents of spirited children, school-related question (long – sorry!)

[kneedeepinthedirtylaundry]

My ds is a "spirited child" ? with intense and "obsessive" character traits. He's a happy, confident child. He currently goes to a nursery 3 days per week. He's 4 and coming up to primary age. His nursery becomes a school where he can go 3 days per week minimum, and the school day is short, compared with that of a state school (about an hour less per day). It's fee paying, tiny, very village-school like (amazing for London), close to our home and quite child-centred in its approach. We hope to keep him there for three days per week until, say, 6 or so, then up it to four days, then eventually full time.

Because both myself and DH are freelance, and the economic climate is currently what it is, I thought it would be sensible to apply for a school place in the local borough. He's been offered a school place at our fist choice and now we have to decide by Monday if he will take it or stick with the fee-paying lovely school. The state school (just been to visit) has a lovely atmosphere and a great Ofstead report.

But if he goes there, he will get the corners knocked off him, which is not necessarily a bad thing. However, he has always needed a lot of attention, from day one (could never put him down ? had to be a sling baby), and has had the attention he needed, pretty much. (I think that's why he's a happy, outgoing and confident child.) He's not "spoilt", can socialise and share well enough for his age, has empathy for others, etc. I'm wondering if putting him into the school system, which won't cater for his "spirited" needs, will be a good thing for him in the long run. For example, if he doesn't agree with a request you make of him, he will question it. I take the time to explain to him why I have made the request, and answer his question. I won't take no for an answer, but will negotiate with him if he tries and I think it is appropriate. There won't be much of that attitude with 30 children in the class, and I wonder if they will see it as "spoilt" rather than understand that this is his nature, and if their response to him will quash his spirit. While I think it's good for him to develop with an understanding that the world won't cater for his needs, I wonder if we should let him learn that one more slowly, rather than by throwing him in at the deep end, so to speak, at age four and a half. Or am I being too precious?

Does anyone have any experiences they can share to help us make our decision?

What type of school is it? I mean is it a Montessori?

No words of wisdom - my DS is a bit the same but only 3 with an autumn birthday so school apps are next year.

What is the issue with keeping DS at the fee paying school? How much are you worried about paying the fees? To me, that would be the overriding question.

I tend to think that we shouldn't be afraid of pushing spirited children (who otherwise have no SN) into mainstream state education, but I'm not there yet, so really don't know for sure.

Also, how much time are you able to give to him round the edges of the school day? Would you have to work more to pay for the fee paying school? Would you like/be prepared to cut work hours if you could send him state? That's assuming you WOH of course; don't know if you do or plan to as your DS's school career progresses.

Georgiemum, yes, the school he's at now is a Montesori.

Mrsbboring, it's hard to say what things will be like financially over the next 6-7 years of fee-paying. At the moment, we both have enough work on. But that age-old freelance concern of "this could be my last job" is always there, and if we later find we can't afford the fees, he might not get a place at a decent state school.

What is "SN"?

DS is thriving at his Montessori - I guessed! The classes are small and they are hot on discipline. He has learned to slow down and concentration span is much higher. Numeracy and literacy is also cantering on well.

I hate to suggest it but could one of you get a full time job to ensure a steady stream of cash?

I might be about to be flamed here but it's been my impression that once you go into the Montessori type educational experience, the older they DC becomes, the harder it might be to adapt to warts'n'all 'state'. It does have quite a different ethos.

SN is special needs.

From my experience (ds is now 5), I found that when he went into a state reception class (in a village) at 4, it did not work well. He was bored and the environment was too unstructured so he wreaked havoc. He wanted lots of individual attention and to make his voice heard and have his questions answered.

How in Year 1 in a more structured environment, he seems to be much happier. He understands what is expected of him and what he has to do in return. He likes school and works well in it.

However, it occured to me recently that he has had the corners knocked off him a little and is not perhaps so "vivid" as he was. This makes me sad as I can't decide whether or not it's just part of a natural growing up process.

Our school is montessori in the early years then moves to traditional teaching methods. It is good for... shall we say 'busy and individual' children!

mrsgboring, I work at home, so I work around him. (Lots of late nights at the mo). I intend to carry on in the same way no matter what, but if he does go state, ironicaly, I'll have more time to work!

Goosey, what you are feeling is what I'm afraid of feeling in a year or two's time. He is so "vivid" right now, but perhaps that's cos he's 4, and by 6, with different peer group pressures, they lose some of that vividness anyway? But I like it that he asks questions, and don't want him to stop because his question-asking muscle isn't stimulated by response.

That's a good point faraday. I guess it's now or never, and pray that, if we stick with the Montessori, we'll be able to afford it and hope the gamble pays off.

Georgiemum, there's so many redundancies in my industry, I think I might be better off keeping my freelance client list going. Also, my DS likes a good dose of mummy every day (exhausting! but no doubt not for ever), so I like to be there at three to pick him up and take him to extra-curricular stuff, or just to the park for an ice cream and a scooter around. So far, he's been cared for my family alone (lucky (?) me, my mum lives with us), and my one experiment with a babysitter while I worked didn't work out.

busy and individual kids is a perfect description! How do they generally do at state school. Thrive? Or become less busy and individual?

bump

I don't have direct experience beyond my sister was a 'b&i' kid and was very bored at school. I was the same and became a bit 'lost' in the larger classes and quite shy.

dd is absolutely an individual, and was used to asking 'why' all the time and having her questions taken seriously - she's thriving in a (smallish) state primary, in Reception. I don't know about higher up the school, but certainly atm her teachers expect and support questioners, and spirit...they are expected to follow the rules, such as they are, but the rules are explained and discussed a lot.

I worried about dd getting lost in a big class, or being unhappy with discipline beyond what she was used to, but she loves school and is still happy, confident (more so) and follows her own tune.

I think it does depend on the school's ethos...but know that some degree of worry is inevitable, and not neccessarily a measure of problems ahead!

Interesting this. fwiw, we actually wanted DS to go to the local primary, as we felt it important he learns that he's one of many. Equally we didn't want his quirky individuality to be squashed, so we chose carefully and were lucky to find somewhere we liked. He's now in reception at a large chaotic inner primary that terms itself 'holistic' in its prospectus. It treats each child very much as an individual, but also has 60 kids in each year so they have to rub along together well iyswim. We thought it the right choice, as it prepares him for being part of the real world/ society, but also allows him to develop as himself. Am rambling now, but what I'm trying to say (I think!) is it depends: a) what you feel about education and b) what the state school's like.

DD is 'b&i', she is coping very well at pre school at the moment but then they actively encourage her and have been very supportive of her eccentricities. We were going to send her to our local RC primary school which my nephews go to and cousins children and has always been talked about as the best in the area, we have since gone to see our closer cofe primary school which we have now registered for an I can't believe how lucky we are to have it. They very rarely get classes over 14, thay take their reception class out an about for walks once a wekk either locally or in the minibus, they also use the countryside and the seaside as an extended classroom and best of all they have a swimming pool so the children swam everyday last summer term, the schools ethos being that as we are so close to the coast then learning to swim is a necessity. I can't believe that we are so lucky.

I was an odd child (B&I for sure) and really thrived in state primaries (we moved and went to several different ones, and all were fine though very different)

Secondary was a very different matter. For our DS we are almost certainly going to go for state primary so we can save for the right secondary option which may well be private.

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences. The atmosphere of the school we went to was very nice, and the children seemed happy. I smiled at a good few, and they all smiled back. No one looked miserable. But it's really difficult to know how good a fit it would be until DS is there, I suppose. I guess in the end me and DP will have to just go by instinct.

mrsgboring, I think I was also b&i, but my experience of 1970s primary education was having my individuality squashed. I think that's why I'm worried about this. Glad you fared better.

Don't all parents find their children 'vivid' / 'quirky' / 'busy and individual'?!

From my experience state school doesn't turn out little robots like a factory. Dd is in Y1 at a busy inner city London state primary and has gone from being a rather shy and introverted child (publicly) to being much more confident and out-going. In fact in every way she's flourished.

I think a truly individual child will find a way to shine however big the crowd. Any child finds it easy to shine with individual attention of the Montessori kind. My friend's dd discovered when she started state primary after Montessori, age 8, that she was a small fish in a big pool and had to work a lot harder to get praise. It was hard for her but ultimately it did her a lot of good as prior to that she thought she knew it all and it didn't make her terribly pleasant to be around on occasion.

imaginaryfriend, I understand what you are saying. I don't think my child is "special", just a good deal more intense than the usual, and I've found that some people find it difficult to understand. I would obviously prefer it if the people educating him did have a better understanding of such character traits, and didn't consider them to be "problem" characteristics, but simply characteristics that need appropriate handling to help the child develop in a positive way.

Yes but I'd describe my dd as 'intense' and if I think about her friends at school they all have similar characteristics and their mums all tend to worry about the same things. It's important to keep it in perspective. If anything I wonder if environments such as Montessori exacerbate problems rather than allow them to develop without intensive focus.

Also a busy primary classroom has a huge array of character types each with very individual needs. IME good primary teachers in good schools are very well equipped to deal with different characters and help them to fit into a large group. It's good for the kids too to see other 'intense' characters as it helps them to put themselves into perspective.

Why do you assume that the school will not cater for his particular needs? A good school - a good teacher - will treat each child as an individual. Certainly our medium-sized state school was able to accomodate our ds1, and adapt to him as he adapted to them. We have just had an excellent parent-teacher conference, where the teacher discussed ds1's behaviour (today he balanced scissors on his ears) and managed to find positive aspects to it, as well as talk about how he has to learn to learn what is and is not appropriate.

Is he your only child? You sound (no offence intended) a little precious about him. He sounds like a child who will thrive in school.