Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

Girls and friendships and problems at primary

58 replies

dinny · 12/11/2008 18:54

Wasn't sure where to post this really - just can't decide what I need to do, if anything, and thought I would run it past you all!

Background - highly dominant girl in dd's class (y2) - have posted about the issue before

dd has never been in her "gang" - some of her friends are. school tried to address the issue of gangs last year with playground pals etc, but have a new teacher AND new head this year and it has petered out.

dd is popular and confident, but when this girl X is around she won't let her join in the gang, which dd doesn't challenge (as she is quite a softy)

what I want to know is - should the school be doing something about this? is it just the way it is with girls? am I too pfb?

dd isn't actually UPSET, she seems to have sussed out that X is surrounded by sheep, iyswim, who are scared to stand up to her

argh, just worried am missing something/or it's hurting her self-esteem (though she is gaining confidence/doing well at school all the time etc)

wwyd?

OP posts:

mrsmaidamess · 12/11/2008 18:57

I think you can either:
continue to talk to your dd 9who sounds very mature) about why this girl has so many 'followers' and what she can do not to become one of them, also encourage playing with her other friends, invite them round after school etc.

Or speak to the class teacher, if it makes her unhappy. But from your post it sounds like she has got her head screwed on.

Original poster

dinny · 12/11/2008 19:02

yes, mrsmaidamess, she would never become one of X's followers, she is a very strong character. she has lots of friends for tea, but (it seems) the friendships are overridden at this brat's say-so.

just worry she's somehow being damaged by it, but maybe she is strong enough to just learn to deal with it

OP posts:

BodenGroupie · 12/11/2008 19:02

Sounds like you are lucky enough to have a dd who is mature enough to understand not just the other girl's behaviour but that of the sheep around her. As long as you keep talking I'm sure you'll know if it's become a problem. Went through this with my dd2 in year 5 to the point where she was referred to the children's unit because she was so distressed by school. Finally moved schools and she's been fine ever since (she's now nearly 13) but it has given her a huge insight into the behaviour of girls/women! The headmaster eventually admitted that he let the ringleader get away with murder because her mother was very shouty/sweary and aggressive - I'm not! Good luck, it's not easy watching your child struggle with other kids.

Original poster

dinny · 12/11/2008 19:09

bloody nightmare, how awful for your dd

we were due to be moving areas/schools nect yera but don't think we are now, so am more concerned about it than I was...

is there an X in every school?

OP posts:

BodenGroupie · 12/11/2008 19:49

Yes, Dinny, always was and always will be! Think it's important for girls in particular to
learn they can't change other people but also how to handle situations like that - I'm really crap at it! I've worked in an office recently with someone like X - she was 60!

Hassled · 12/11/2008 19:54

Oh yes, there is always an X in any large group of females, I think. There was in my schooldays, and offices I've worked in. Learning to cope with it is part of growing up, but that doesn't make it easier for you to sit and watch.

Original poster

dinny · 12/11/2008 20:09

there was in my year too (and I had a TINY class of 11)

she used to say who could and who couldn't play Blake 7 on the climbing frame

why are they like it?? ruin things for everyone else!

OP posts:

christywhisty · 12/11/2008 20:23

This happened to DD in Year 2/3. She was always the one in the group not allowed to play and she found it very upsetting. The girl involved lost her Grandfather and DD felt very sorry for her.
Now year 6 this girl has changed completely and is not so controlling and they are best friends.

BodenGroupie · 12/11/2008 20:30

Still have conversations with my dds about the lack of self-awareness some people have. How can anyone, even a child, think it's OK to behave in that way? Is it upbringing? I'm sure mine aren't perfect (well, they nearly are ) but I believe they put a lot of thought into how they treat people. The behaviour of the X at dd2's school also affected another girl so badly she moved - the school finally took action and helped her work on her attitude/treatment of other girls. Apparently, she's lovely now!

Original poster

dinny · 12/11/2008 20:30

what would your advice be, CW?

OP posts:

Original poster

dinny · 12/11/2008 20:31

BG, my mum always says that those who shout the most seem to have the least to say...

OP posts:

Fennel · 12/11/2008 20:35

I would probably talk to the school, our school has a policy (according to my dds) of not letting children be left out in the playground. It seems to work, children know they have to include others in their games, and the lunchtime supervisors regulate it. It's a very friendly school and puts a lot of effort into this sort of behaviour.

Original poster

dinny · 12/11/2008 20:37

mmm, wish ours was, Fennel

should I start with form teacher?

thing is, if dd is left out, she makes herself busy - she has a mission to go round heloing younger kids with no-one to play with

OP posts:

snowleopard · 12/11/2008 20:39

I'm sure it's not harming her. I was like this at school - excluded (I was academic and also had wrong accent) and I refused to be part of the in-group. I was never ms popular but I always did have friends - and I think I learned that not everyone can always like you, which is a good life lesson I think.

One thing that used to amaze me was that the "sheep" would sidle up to me and try to be nice to me when the bullies/queen bee types weren't looking. They were obviously sorry for me, but they weren't strong enough to publicly walk away from the whole nightmarish system. Of course it can't be nice being in a gang like that and being tightly controlled and having to watch your step for fear of humiliation.

People survive and get through this by finding out what kind of a person they are IMO and your DD is doing that brilliantly.

fourlittlefeet · 12/11/2008 20:45

Lol, there are always people like this and apparently I came up against some of them at school too. According to my parents I just used to start my own rival gang . Sounds like your DD is behaving normally and dealing with it. I wouldn't interfere unless it is upsetting her as its far better that she trust her own opinions/actions/instincts for later in life. Playgrounds are where we gain our armour!

Original poster

dinny · 12/11/2008 20:45

gosh, yes, she is very much like that, SL - very individualistic, strong-minded and loathes anything the popular consensus says is good (ie, refuses to even watch HSM)

she is also really moralistic and won't tolerate nastiness, she always speaks out

really hard to watch though - just wish she could find someone like-minded in school
she does really like school generally...

would you speak to teacher if you were me?

I did ask dd what she thought earlier and she said "No, Mummy, don't do that, I can handle X"

OP posts:

snowleopard · 12/11/2008 21:10

Well, no then! (though as a mum I don't have much experience of this stuff yet as I only have a younger DS)

But if she doesn't want you to, that means she is OK. And it really does sound as if she is.

I'm not sure at all about having a school policy of making everyone play together tbh. Anti-bullying yes of course, but I'd be mighty pissed off to be forced to play with someone I didn't like. That's not how the world works either and I think it is good - within limits of course - to learn to deal with this popularity thing your own way.

christywhisty · 12/11/2008 21:13

I just had the occasional word with DD's teacher. She was very old school and never stood much nonsense.
I did explain to teacher to the teacher all DD wanted was to be able to play with her friends etc. There was obviously a lot going on with this girl at the time and she was very manipulative and controlling, very much the Queen Bee.

She is very different now and seems quite a sweet girl and is one of DD's best friends.

Zazette · 12/11/2008 21:34

I clicked on this because my dd is having some similar issues - and what a fantastic role model for her your dd is dinny! she sounds great. You are obviously doing a brilliant job too, it doesn't sound like you need to change anything.

colie · 12/11/2008 21:41

I clicked on this too and once reading thought you must be a mum at my dd school. She is also in yr2 and there is an X already in place and a new right hand man.

Your daughter sounds very confident and self assured. I wish my dd showed more of this at times.

Original poster

dinny · 13/11/2008 07:42

ah, Zazette, Colie, thank you

woke up early this am stressing! will see what today brings....

Colie - what area are you in???!!!!

OP posts:

Fennel · 13/11/2008 10:25

IF she says she's OK and can handle it I'd leave it for now and keep an eye on it.

But I would take it seriously if it continued and she was miserable, and I'd expect the school to as well. It seems to me that there's been quite a change from my schooldays when this was seen as "normal" and even "good for children", now it's more likely to be acknowledged as bullying and unacceptable. Which it is.

I don't see that learning to cope with being ostracised is good for anyone. It shouldn't be permitted.

avaTsar · 13/11/2008 12:10

Oh dear both my dd's have run into this in varying degrees.

Dd1 was friends with a very dominant girl who wouldn't let her play with anyone else.

Got that sorted, then dd2 started at infant school(now inyr2) and is friends with a girl who is lovely some of the time then bang..it's 'go away you're not to play with us today'

Dd2 was spending most of her playtimes alone hoping for the all clear by the friend for permission come back and play

I did speak to her teacher. I also gave dd a few hints about standing up to people and reassuring her that it's ok to say 'hey don't talk to me like that I am allowed to be here too' etc. I think she was hesitant to answer back in case it was wrong in some way.

The most empowering thing though was to encourage her to make other friends and to make sure she plays regularly with a selection of different children so she's not putting all her eggs in one basket as it were.

God playgrounds though. Try to be guided by how your dd feels about it though. I found I was getting more wound up by it than dd was and grilling her every day about playtimes and how it had been that day after school.

I honestly don't think she was as bothered about it as I was thought she was and it was me who drew attention to it more than was required maybe.

Original poster

dinny · 13/11/2008 12:18

bit of an update - been speaking to another mum this am and the exact same thing happening with her dd

we are going to go together tomorrow and speak to the teacher

what can we say to avoid being fobbed off? because this has been an ongoing problem, I want the head and parents involved - it isn't enough for the teacher to just speak to X as she will continue doing it

OP posts:

Fennel · 13/11/2008 12:26

Well you could refer to whether the school has a bullying policy. It might cover such things. It's worth asking.

You could also mention how some schools have rules about such things in the playground and this seems to work well.

I think it's hugely important. Not necessarily for your dd if she is coping with it, but many children are made utterly miserable, and it's not as though they have a choice about going to school. They can't just walk away. They have to go back day after day. So many people (many on mumsnet) were affected by such things as children, it's one of the major reasons for home educating for many. It does matter.

Flip

1 2 3