head teacher sacked my child..need advice possibly legal advice

[errdunno]

I had a meeting with the head of my childs school to talk about the next year teacher.
I asked lots of questions about that new teacher and the head didnt want to answer any of those questions and had no qualms saying so.
I told her why we were so concerned, why we were to accept,again,for the third year in a row,an NQT,very young,and who had previously applied for a full time position at the school and had been turned down but we were being asked to accept her as a temporary teacher.

That meeting fell apart and we pretty much hated each other!
But all that is by the by because the next day..the last day of term..the head walked in to my childs class and inexplicably asked him to stand up and then announced to his schoolmates that he was leaving the school and could everyone wish him goodbye.?

He is/was stunned and in tears for weeks,and refused to go back to the same school..I coulnt talk to the school or govenors about it-they were on holiday!
so I moved him to a private school that we are vvv happy with.
I have since complained to the school Lea and the govenors but there has been total silence from all of them.
Thing is.I feel this woman is clearly out of control and needs to explain what she did.
I feel so bad for my other half who now has to pay for a private school as there was no room at any other school locally.
Could I sue the school? it is afer all constructive dissmissal?
What do you think?

I would have thought the fact that your son was enrolled at another school would have been confirmation that you wanted him removed from the roll of his previous school. I wouldn't have thought he could be enrolled at more than one school under normal circumstances.

I, too, think it unlikely that you will receive an apology and more likely that the head will say that you had told her you were removing your son from the school.

I agree with Juule I have only ever received 1 apology from the teacher who manhandled my ds they all stick together and if its the heads word aginst yours im afraid shes always going to win .

I wholeheartedly understand your frustration but i think you have to draw a line underneath it and move on.

he wasnt enrolled at another school
I didnt go down the other school route til the end of Aug! i spent the begining of Aug trying to get the school/govenors to talk to me about this
besides that the old school was lea and the new one private , I dont think(correct me if im wrong)private schools contact the old schools as they dont need to get any funding details from them as Im bloody well paying now!

bump for other ladies and gents coming in of an evening! and I could do with some advice for a meeting set with ht and govenors
pointers anyone?

been there done that errdunno - i dont think its a worhwhile experience she will deny it and say you told her you were leaving regardless of the rules wether you should have notified in writing her governers will back her and the LEA will sit on the fence.

she told the children your son was leaving.

He left.

So what exactly is it you want her to apologise for?

I'm trying to picture what happened when your son came out of school with his card and good wishes etc. Were you there then? Did you not go in and try to sort out the mis-communication straight away?

Why wouldn't you respect the slip she made about confidentiality?

Also pick your battles - NQTs are FAB!! Fresh ideas, fresh enthusiasm etc etc. Also repeating another post, just because the temp didn't get the permanent post doesn't mean she's rubbish, just that they preferred another candidate.

i think you are going to have to set out exactly why you removed him and enrolled him elsewhere, based on a situation you did not even see or hear personally.

This is a bizarre story.

I know the authority you are in. I may even know the school.

If you are going to governors you will need to ask the head to produce the paperwork that says that either she or you removed your son from the school. You will need to present your dated emails to her, to the LEA and whoever else that you contacted plus any other pertinant information.

my twopennorth - she doesn;t like you. and i have some sympathy with that. you requested a meeting with her to clarify a rumour that doesn't actually concern information you are entitled to know. (if you were seriously concerned about recruitment policies and process this isn;t the way to do it). Parents who take up teachers and head-teachers' time wanting info on every bit of playground gossip - are bang out of order.

basically you had a horrible meeting and you really pissed her off.

now either you said something about leaving or you didn't.

If you did then her behaviour was still out of order because it would fall short of procedures that would require written confirmation and she should get some sort of warning.

If you really didn't then she is bang out of order, possibly acting in anger or vindictively and she sould probably be discplined in some way.

Your meeting may result in one of these outcomes. it may not.

write everything down before hand. take someone with you. stay cool. loose your rag while she stays calm and you'll just look like the mad raving woman the head says you are (wnd which you might in fact be).

when it's all over have a good long think about what role you have as a parent with regards to your child's education. you need to build a trusting relationship with his teachers. you need to respect them. you need to listen to what they say and the info they provide not gossip. you've entrusted his education to someone else and you need to have a realistic idea of what a supportive parent should do. falling out with head teachers, however mad, is not one of them. you also need to support him. show him how to behave like an adult and how to tackle difficult situations objectively and without confusing personal feelings with rational action. you ran away from this situation - by sending him to a new school and I'm afraid you probably confirmed his fear that this whole mess was somehow his fault. It wasn't and he really needs to know that.

So what would have happened if you couldn't have afforded to send him to a private school at short notice?

hatwoman i think your two pennorth was filled with pre conceived ideas nd i think you have entirely missed the point.

The op has already explained why she had a meeting with the head and that isnt the main issue.

i will repeat again not all teachers are good teachers.
and how can you assume the op may be a raving mad woman? how very judgemental of you.

Ldy muck- i was thinking that maybe it would have been better if the op hadnt sent her dc private she would have had to appeal to the lea for help in finding a school place and the ball may have rolled quicker?

Hi errdunno

What do you actually want from this situation, e.g. your son to return there, an apology? I would try and focus on this to help you through this.

From what you've said about the school's staff and approaches to dealing with situations (and the lack of objectivity from the priest), it sounds as though your son is better off out of there.

I personally believe that you should be entitled to ask about the experience and qualifications of your child's teacher. And I believe that as more parents become aware of the use of Cover Supervisors and Teaching Assistants for teaching in classrooms, more Heads will be challenged by parents. However, I am not saying here that NQTs are necessarily CSs and TAs.

Yes, an NQT is a new teacher, however he/she will have undergone a year's teacher training (including 2 teaching placements) in addition to their degree. They are, as someone pointed out earlier, entitled to 20% planning and preparation time (as opposed to 10% for non-NQTs), so this 20% will be covered by other staff.

My understanding is that for your son to have come 'off role', you, as his parent/carer would have had to have formally withdraw him from the school - in writing. At which time, the school would have forwarded on your son's school file to his next school. However, your son's 2nd school may (or may not) have set this process in motion by requesting the file from them (the previous school), I don't know.

I hope it all works out well for you and your son. I personally wouldn't waste any more energy on attempting to understand the workings of this school or its Head (unless of course you want your son to return there). Personally, I think that both of you are well out of it!

no - I very carefully and deliberately did not say she was a mad raving woman. I said she might be. I have no idea if she is or not. similarly I have no idea if the head is mad/vindictive/incompetent or in fact the opposite. and neither do you. if you read my post it is very carefully - and deliberately - termed in ways that omit such judgements on either the op or the head.

my points about why she had the meeting in no way contradict what she herself said about the meeting. they take her explanation of teh reasons for that meeting at face value. the only judgement in my post was on those reasons - I personally don;t think they were very good ones for having a meeting with the head. and the meeting is not irrelevant - it was clearly part of the context. as many others have said. it set a chain of events in motion.

This is a very bizarre story and I agree with many - seems somewhat unlikely. However, I have been a school governor for many years and have come across several HT's who act inappropriately and autocratically in the management of their schools. One of whom I could imagine behaving in a way similar to this.

I think you really need to decide what you want to achieve. Realistically do you want your child to go back to this school or are you going to keep him where he is. If you decide to keep him where he is (and were it me I couldn't imaging sending him back) then you need to decide whether it is worth the hassle of tackling this or whether you just let it go.

If you want to tackle it then you need to complain to the LEA about your child being excluded without the due process being followed - you need to collect all your emails etc and arrange a meeting with the LA - face to face. Contact a local parent support group and see if they will advise you. I imagine the HT will respond with the suggestion that you informed her you were removing your child - copies of your documentation should counteract this and you should expect her to provide your written confirmation of this decision.

The Governing Body may well initially support the HT - they will be relying on HT for much of their information and as you are no longer a parent at the school I would go straight to the LA. If you get no joy from them then consider approaching your MP and your local paper - however if you are going to go public please ensure your facts are correct otherwise you could find yourself the subject of legal action.

I wonder if OP's (sorry op!) lack of skill in expressing herself clearly has contributed to the misunderstandings irl.

I don;'t think its a troll

I do think OP has some trouble getting her point cross and can easily be misconstrued

This could be crux of whole thing.

This is very confusing. Can the OP please clarify what she wants the head teacher to apologise for. For us tired MNttrs who have just come to this thread.

Can you afford to continue to pay school fees?

Maybe some fresh blood to this thread will get to the bottom of all this.

Thankyou for all that great advice.

I do have a long list of emails,thankfuly all on the same copy as Im a lazy emailer!
In all those emails I copied in the Lea and the govenors all of the emails to the LEA have a response but ALL except one to the HT and the govenors are unanswered from the 15th July to date.
This will help me to form a time line at this meeting.

I do stress that the only reason we put him private was the lack of places elsewhere and we couldnt go round the school as it was the holidays,but the private one was holding a summer camp so was open to have a look around and much to our relief the year teacher that applied to us was the teacher at the summer camp so all was well and good.

At the end of the term when I went to see the head at the first school , I was tired of all the others speculation about another temp teacher for our year, and this "phrase" NCT kept cropping up when he was in the previous years classes... so I went in to ask the head exactly what this was as Im so unfamiliar with it?
I didnt go in for a "spat" far from it,I have never needed to have an appointment before and tbh didnt have much to do with the school,I also think this contributed to why she acted so bizzarly with me,She was used to seeing my child minder not me,Im not "a face" at the school and she simply tried to show me the door,like she hadnt enough time to talk,despite me making an appointment.
It defo went downhill when she gaffed up that the cover teacher wasnt good enough to hire,only to cover,and that the post was still being advertised...then she remembered she shouldnt have said that...she does however know that because of my business I socialise alot with the other parents which is why she asked me not to tell them!

Dont change the fact of what she did tho,we didnt disscuss us leaving,she had not been informed in writing we were going,we didnt even know we were going, and she did get him to stand up and have his goodbyes said to him...
the governors and the school (her) have ignored me for over 16 weeks,!!!not even acknoledging my complaint had been received, it took intervention from the complaints officer to even get a meeting,as yet to be arranged...
She will be apologising to us,
I take the point that some of you have made about the end result that I want to acheive and I think thats what im going for an apology.simple as.
Is there such a thing as a verbal assault?

I think you need to stop being so litigious.

Talking about assault and dismissal is inflammatory language relating to paid employment not school.

You should be aware that mentioning stuff in those terms is likely to get you nowhere/a frosty reception/ muchos opposition to your requests.

People find it aggressive.

Try to find out what happened rather than going in guns blazing.

I know your right touchpaper..but I cant help feeling so bitter cos (not that i would ever admit this to my dp!) I feel its all my fault...but then captain sensible kicks in and tells me NO!! she did this,she walked in and effectivly..well...sacked him..I just cant think of another way to describe it..
Im not very good with the words am I..you see this is exactly why I posted to get some advice/a handle on this.
I do feel she will grow in confidence if she gets away with this and I cant help wanting to right a wrong now can I?

I'd be crazy mad with her too, in your situation - but yo do need to simmer down or you'll get nowhere.

approach it as a misunderstanding without malice etc and just pretend to be willing to be friendly, and smile etc etc as you will get far further that way.

Good luck - be really cool and collected and they will respect you for it.

By all means complain but try not to get hung up on the idea of an apoplogy becuase I really don't think you'll get one no matter how wrong the HT was. Flight is right that you need to try and keep things calm and non-confrontational. I know how hard this can be when you are fighting for your child (I sadly have plenty of experience with this) but if you want to get anywhere with the complaint you need to keep any accusatory tone out of your voice. Try writing down you complaint in full and asking a friend to read over it and see what they think of the tone. Sometimes when you are in the middle of a situation like this you are too close to it to get a true picture IYKWIM. A POV from someone who is not involved can be really helpful.

i think the head's behaviour in this is pretty appalling.

however if i was you, i would draw a line under it. it was completely wrong, you know that, and its awful that your ds has been taken away from his friends etc but i would take the view that he is probably receiving a much better education than he would have done from yet another NQT.

and yes i'm sure there are lots of wonderful NQT's. but 3 in a row is a joke, my dc's school has a similar problem with recruitment (i suspect due to the head ) so half the teaching staff are new each year both to teaching and the school.

focus on the positive aspects of your new school, and forget the old one. its hard i know because you want her to be accountable for whats happened but as has been said above the school will entirely close ranks and the governors side with the school, and the lea just wont get involved.

i wouldnt waste a second more of my energy on her. however if you decide to go ahead wit the meeting etc, i hope you get the outcome you want.

I don't think you will get an apology because if the HT apologies, legally, an apology could be construed as an admission of guilt.

Just because the NCT didn't get the job to start with doesn't mean she isn't good enough to cover for the role temporarily. There may be dozens of reasons why the HT and governors choose someone else over her, and these reasons are of a confidential nature but it could be something as simple and minor as the other teacher being a bit older, having a minor health and safety qualification or such like.

errdunno, please don't think I'm being unkind, nasty or sarcastic when I ask you is there any chance that you could be ill?

The reason I ask is because I do believe that you believe what you say (ie, your not lying) - it just comes accross here as an unbelieveable scenario.

It also seems as though you can't cope financially even though initially you may have thought you could finance school fees out of salaries and that because you can't cope, you are desparately hoping for some sort of compensation payout from the LEA.