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Original poster

How on EARTH do you teach the times tables!?

117 replies

Boco · 15/10/2008 20:44

dd is year 2, her homework is learning the 2x tables. Easy, she can say 2, 4, 6, 8 10 etc. But if you say what is 2x8 she looks blank and says 'what do you mean?'.

I can't seem to be able to explain the concept of TIMESing - I've been saying two lots of, which I thought might help, but she's not getting it. I've shown her a number grid, i've drawn two lots of cakes, four lots of two cakes, six lots two cakes etc - i've written them all down and tried just getting her to memorize - finally I've tried collapsing exasperated as she shouts 'I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!'

How how how how how?

OP posts:
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Original poster
Boco · 15/10/2008 21:18

No no, Baldrick is fair. Is actually a compliment, dd is slightly more shouty than Baldrick. And Baldrick DID get it in the end, whereas dd ran off.

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 15/10/2008 21:18

It struck a chord with me - that's me, having a maths lesson, that.

fishie · 15/10/2008 21:22

i couldn't get it at that age either, that 2x in columns thing is making me uncomfortable. i mainly learned tables by rote but never did get 8s or 9s. achieved grade 4 cse maths after much effort.

i now have a job which involves a fair amount of calculation so do not despair.

Twelvelegs · 15/10/2008 21:23

You could always try having a small ruler and ask your DC to answer how many is two lots of two, if he gets it wrong give him four lashes of the ruler, in two lots.....he'll soon get the message!!!

I am joking...

hecAteTheirBrains · 15/10/2008 21:25

chant it over and over and over until you know it so well that you can pull any one at random.

That's how they used to do it

I am at the stage with mine where I am drawing the number of dots at the top of the page (laid out like on a domino) and letting them count them out - getting the idea across that multiplication is just repeated addition and not this big scary monster!

Plus the 'cheats' - "six sixes are thirty six", which is easy to learn, and nine times table is "add one take one".

Just working at it every day builds up.

Original poster
Boco · 15/10/2008 21:26

[tempted]

I need to concentrate on that finger one - I couldn't work it out! Don't you have to already know your early tables in order to do it that way?

OP posts:
UnfortunatelyMurderedMe · 15/10/2008 21:29

yes you do, sorry

myredcardigan · 15/10/2008 21:29

Boco, I teach it regularly and still can't do the finger thing. I understand it but find it slow and counterproductive. But maths is all about different kids using their own different strategies.

singersgirl · 15/10/2008 21:36

DS2 has just brought the Percy Parker CD home from school and I really recommend it for learning the tables. We all think it's very funny, even DS1 who's 10 and knows all his tables anyway.

It might help a bit with comprehension as it uses examples such as 3 meals a day for the 3 times, 11 players in a football team for the 11s, 4legs on a cow for the 4s and so on.

Other people have given good lots of other good suggestions for understanding the concept of multiplication.

hunkermunker · 15/10/2008 21:38

I still do my 9x table on my fingers...

combustiblelemon · 15/10/2008 21:41

I'd try learning by rote.

Dottoressa · 15/10/2008 21:42

By rote here, too, for Y2 DS. Fortunately that kind of learning suits his obsessive mind!

trumpetgirl · 15/10/2008 21:44

I loved the way we did it at primary school.
If you were doing the 2x table and you were doing 8 x 2 then you would get 8 rings and put 2 objects in each ring. Then you add all the objects together (I think we used lego or something!)
This was great as it works for division later on.
Say you have 8/2 then you take 8 objects and divide them equally between the 2 rings.
I think this emphasises the fact that division is the inverse of multiplication as well

myredcardigan · 15/10/2008 21:54

And is repeated addition as I said, Trumpetgirl.

trumpetgirl · 15/10/2008 21:57

Ah yes, myredcardigan. Sorry, I got over enthusiastic when I saw a thread in which I could actually say something constructive in!

Jux · 15/10/2008 21:58

She does not need to understand it, she just needs to learn them so chant and chant and chant and don't worry about any deeper meaning - she'll work it out for herself one day (and you don't need to, to be able to multiply). That was my mistake with dd; I left her to the mercy of the school (not teachers faults I hasten to add - it's gov policy) when I should have just got her into rote learning.

trumpetgirl · 15/10/2008 21:59

Oh, and I am totally against rote learning. There's no need for it, as once you've understood the concept of multiplication, you don't actually need to know them by heart.
I have never learnt my tables and I'm doing a maths degree. I do however, understand the concept of multiplication!!!

Original poster
Boco · 15/10/2008 22:06

trumpet and jux I"m torn.

I do think that learning by rote is good to get in to her brain so she can retrieve at will - but I also think that it's important to know what she's doing and why - the concept seems very important really - or it doesn't mean anything and she can't actually think about it.

OP posts:
singersgirl · 15/10/2008 22:13

I think it's harder to memorise if you don't understand it. It's sort of a string of meaningless numbers unless you understand that you're adding on another group of the same again.

But rote learning is tremendously useful for quick recall and problem solving.

myredcardigan · 15/10/2008 22:15

Tis ok trumpetgirl,I wasn't having a dig

Learning by rote is useful but only once the concept is understood.

Jux · 15/10/2008 22:47

When I started school I learnt the alphabet by heart (I was already reading though) and we recited times tables starting with the 2x everyday, adding the 3x when our teacher knew we were OK with the 2 etc. By the end of year 1, everyone in my class knew all their tables up to 12x12. We had tests every week and our mental arithmetic was really fast and accurate. Not one of us even knew there was a concept behind the tables, we just learnt them. Some of us realised what they were earlier than others, but it didn't make a blind bit of difference. I am 50 and know them still. My mother learnt the same way and at 83 still knows them. I use my tables pretty well everyday and don't have to think "oh what's 7 times 8" because it just pops out.

There is nothing wrong with rote learning so long as it is not the only type of learning going on.

bloss · 15/10/2008 23:18

Message withdrawn

trumpetgirl · 15/10/2008 23:28

Jux - you have to learn your alphabet by heart as there isn't a concept behind it. It is a set of letters from which you can form words, which you then assign a meaning to.
Maths is completely different.

I hate rote learning as it stops you needing to think about what you are doing. I was shocked when one of my lecturers told me that the majority of the adult population can't work out 12.5% of something. It's all because they rote learned a method at school and didn't bother to think about what they were doing.

If you feel the need to rote learn stuff after you understand the concept, fine. I never needed to and have picked up some of my tables since. Still don't use them though. I get a calculator in exams if we have to work with numbers... which we very rarely do!

myredcardigan · 15/10/2008 23:39

Bloss, the kids coming through secondary school now should have a much stronger grasp of tables since the numeracy strategy was implimented. We rant,chant,play games and practise til it's coming out of our ears!

bloss · 15/10/2008 23:49

Message withdrawn