DS2 made to fish bottle out of school toilet as punishment

[citylover]

DS2 is in year 2 and he and a friend put a plastic bottle down the toilet, think his friend then went to the toilet, other kids told on them and they were rightly called to account.

As punishment they were made to fish said bottle out of loo (with latex gloves on).

I am really uncomfortable with this type of punishment and have made my concerns known.

In addition my DS has quite serious anxiety issues around using school toilets which I have been trying to overcome over the past few months. The school are aware of these.

My family, and a childless friend think this punishment is fine ("well he won't do it again will he") which made me think perhaps IABU.

However my gut feeling is it isn't the right way of handling it and crosses a line.

He is generally a well behaved child at school - his teacher confirmed this the other night.

[lisasimpson]

But surely if you are going behind them all the time and clearing up after them they are not going to learn are they? "please don't do that Bart or I will just have to jolly well take it out again for you"

[snowleopard]

I even get my 3yo DS to help when he's had an accident (potty training). We gather up the wet things, put them in the washing machine, he helps me put in the powder and switch it on. It's not done in anger at all - it's very matter-of-fact and cheery. It's simply helping him see that when there's a mess there is a consequence, that it needs cleaning up, and he can help. I really, really don't think that's abusive - it's simply showing him the reality. And in fact it's helping him feel he's contributing to a positive outcome, that we'll get the things nice and clean and he can have them back.

I think consequences like the one in the OP are great because they are far more effective and linked to reality than some made-up punishment.

After all, if you are an adult and you drop something in the toilet, spill a drink, whatever, it's your responsibility - and that's what we're training them for. I actually think adults' "punishments" should be far more along these lines too - so if you vandalise something, instead of prison or a fine, you should be involved in mending it and see at first hand all the effort and skill involved.

[lulumama]

OBM, i think you are getting totally overwrought. it is not the same as spitting in food or anything like that

a child threw a bottle in the toilet

he was given gloves and asked to remove it

he apparently is not bothered by it

how is this a bad thing?

what age is appropriate to take the consequences of your actions?

if a child is sick, whether from eating too many sweets or not, as per your your example, they cannot help that. vomiting is a reflex, you cannot stop it.

you can certainly stop yourself, at the age of 7, throwing a bottle down the toilet.

[charliecat]

If he had drawn on a wall would you object to him having to clean that off? Or is that not something that he should have to deal with either?

[Blandmum]

Totaly in favour of this as a punishment.

there was no risk to your son's health (they had gloves)

I assume that you would be happy for some poor cleaner to have to fish it out? If this is the case you are sending him a message that he can make a distasteful mess which someone else then has to sort out. Very bad IMHO

Your son put it in, and at 7 he is old enough to know better, and he should take it out

[MsDemeanor]

If a child tore a page out of a book, and was told to sellotape it back in, would this also some kind of intolerable punishment?

[Blandmum]

at the risk of sounding arsey this is just the sort of silliness that ends up in kids thinking that they can be as antisocial as they like and there is not comeback on them.

And yes I know that your son is 7, but start young and save yourself a shed load of hassle in later life.

I'm sick of teenage kids throwing food round the dining hall who will then pull a face when you tell them to clear it up, 'That isn't my job, that is what there cleaners are there for'

NO THEY ARE BLOODY NOT!

They then spend 5 minutes picking up other people's rubbish and see how they like it

[Blandmum]

[LilRedWhiskGers]

Sazzles - you forgot the risk assessment.

[dilemma456]

Message withdrawn

[Blandmum]

In the secondary school I work in someone shat in the middle of the girls toliet block.

Not in a cubicle, in the middle of the floor.

Laid a log.

not an accident.

We have also had cases of girls sticking soiled menstrual pads round the walls. Again, not an accident.

I'm quite sure that these kids had never been made to see that their actions had consequences. Sadly we never found out who had done it because , by damn, I'd have made the little buggers clear up the mess themselves!

[fryalot]

If he had been talking in class, or been caught fighting, then being made to fish a bottle out of a toilet bowl would not be fair and you would be right to complain about this punishment.

However, he (and his friend, I know) put it there in the first place!

Of course he should be asked to take it out! of course he should learn that if he makes a mess of something he should clear up that mess.

Would you be so bothered if he had emptied a load of crayons on the floor and been made to pick them up again?

and tbh, am a bit that anyone could possibly think that it was ok for someone else to clear up after him.

How is he ever going to learn to respect things if someone follows him around picking up after him and clearing up his mess?

[lizziemun]

I agree with the most people on here, this is not punishment it's about taking responbilty for his action.

My dd1 has had D&V bug last weekend and kept trying to help me change her bedding and she 4.6yrs. Now me making her change her bed would have been punishment because it was an accident not done on purpose where as your ds and freind did this on purpose.

[TheFallenMadonna]

Wel, you can explain that actions have consequences, or you can demonstrate it. I'd go for the demonstrating.

In the eating too many sweets analogy, the vomiting itself is the consequence. The child suffers it. The teacher does too unfortunately.

In this case it's pretty strightforward.

Is it really so distressing to remove a bottle from a loo that you've obviously been close enough to to put it down?

[seeker]

citylover, I don't understand what the issue you have with it. If he had drawn rude pictures on the wall, or mixed up all the coloured pencils would you have a problem with him cleaning it off or sorting them out?

[myredcardigan]

Bloody Hell! I once made a Y3 fish an entire packet of paper towels out the loo after he shoved them down there.
And I made him do it without gloves.

A 7yr old is clearly mature enough to know such behaviour is unacceptable. My toddler knows such behaviour is unacceptable.

Children need to know that they own their behaviour. One of the biggest disservices we can do our children is to fail to instill in them that their actions have consequences and that those consequences are their responsibility.

[minster]

It's about natural consequences, not punishment - you chuck something down the loo - it will need to be fished out - you will be the one to do it.

My dd (also 7yo) chucked her vegetables under the table last night because she didn't want to eat them - of course she was the one who had to clean them up.

Having your mouth washed out with soup isn't a natural consequence of anything - the two can't be compared at all.

Parents who constantly protect their children from the consequences of their actions do them no favours at all.

[Blandmum]

And again I have to ask the question, do you think that fishing something out of the toilet is simply too distasteful for your son to do?

There would be no health consequences, as he wore gloves.

Why would it be ok for someone else, who didn't put the bottle in the toilet, to do this distaseful thing?

Really? I think that making a fuss about this is sending your son totally the wrong message. The school is spot on.

[Egg]

Only read the OP and a few others but of course he should have been made to fish it out. He was given gloves.

And if he has toilet anxiety issues then what on earth was he doing messing around in there anyway? I would even make my two year old fish something out of the loo if he did it on purpose. Actually, don't think he could reach, but I would certainly do it if he could.

[kingprawntikka]

Totally appropriate to expect him to fish it out himself. I think seven is definately old enough to understand actions have consequences . I hope when you say you have made your concerns known, that it is not to your son. I think you should be backing up his teachers stance, and not be giving him the idea you think he has been treated unfairly.

[minster]

belgianbun