Other children seem scared of my 5yo and I don’t know what to do

[Wafflesdownfall]

My son is 5 and started reception in September. He’s always been quite full on but the school have spoken to me twice now about him being rough with other children and I’m starting to worry it’s becoming a bigger problem.

Apparently he pushes past them, grabs them to get them to play with him and sometimes carries on messing about when they’ve had enough. One child ended up crying after he pushed him over. I know he’s not doing it to be nasty but obviously that doesn’t make it ok.

The teacher first mentioned it as him getting overexcited but the last time she said some of the children are starting to avoid playing with him because they don’t like how rough he is. I’ve been talking to him about keeping his hands to himself and stopping when someone says stop but it doesn’t seem to be sinking in properly yet.

The thing that’s upset me most happened just before half term. I was waiting at the school gate and he went over to two boys from his class, calling them to come and play. One went and stood behind his mum and the other said he didn’t want to play with him because he always pushes people. They both moved away and my son just stood there looking a bit lost. I don’t know if I’m reading too much into it but they seemed genuinely wary of him.

He’s not like this all the time and he can be lovely with other children, but when he gets carried away he seems to forget himself completely. His dad thinks he’s only five and will learn as he gets older, but I don’t want to leave it until nobody wants to play with him.

Would you ask for a proper meeting with the teacher now or give it a bit longer and see how he gets on after half term? I feel awful for the other children as well and don’t want them feeling uncomfortable at school because of my son.

You might also ask his cousins for help and set up time every afternoon for a week for your Ds to play with them. Ask the cousins to push him back and say im pushing you because you pushed me every time he gets handsy or rough. Some dc communicate more physically than verbally and that unfortunately doesnt work well in modern society, the easiest way to get through to them is using physicality and combining it with words as it teaches to switch from communicating physically to verbally. If that works to get him to tone it down, go forward with a second week of every time he gets physical to hold him and ask him. What do you want to tell me instead of pushing me? Does this make sense?

I'd ask for school to help with this. The SENCO should be able to take him out and do some work on zones of regulation with him, he could maybe do a few sessions a week for the next half term or something. I'm not saying he has SEN, just that the tactics they use on SEN kids will help.

You can also ask the teacher to practice some scaffolded play with him, where they sort of hang out with him a bit at playtimes and help support him to play a bit more nicely. Some kids need to be guided a bit.

^^ Both are things school did with my SEN kid at that age, both very effective. But again should also work with a non SEN child.

I genuinely think you need to treat him as if him doing this is a very big deal. The little chars haven't worked.
I agree his cousins pushing him back might help, but be careful with this, it could encourage and escalate it.
Young kids get chats all the time about their behaviour and what they should or should not be doing. So to change entrenched behaviour you have to come down on it really hard. He will probably get upset, but this is to help him. If it goes on for a few years he will get a reputation that will probably stick with him all through primary. So this really is a key time to tackle it.

This sounds exactly like my friend's little boy - he is currently being assessed for ADHD and been referred for SALT as well. Definitely speak to the school SENCO and ask if they can do an assessment on him, they will know best.
I hope you know I'm not saying this definitely means that your little boy has ADHD but when I was reading your post I was thinking 'that sounds like Bertie' (not his real name) so thought I'd just add what my friend is doing for him at the moment.

Instead of it again becoming the school’s responsibility, perhaps OP needs some parenting classes and help in how to deal with this behaviour effectively. I know my local council offers voluntary parenting classes.

What other posters have said. You need to come down hard when he becomes ‘over excited’ with other children. Remove him from play immediately, make him sit down and tell him he needs to calm down and promise to play nicely before rejoining in play.

My DS is 5 and has just started year 1. There is a boy in his class who acts in a very similar way as you describe your DS acting.

There has been minimal improvement over the last 12 months which has resulted in the child becoming isolated because no other children want to risk spending any time with him and the parents also encourage other friendships for the same reason.

It sounds harsh on the child however nobody is going to want their child put at risk of harm so the resolution has to sit with the parents.

The child in question at my DCs school is the only one in his class who doesn’t live with both his parents. I noted you also suggest that is the case for your DS and I wonder if a lack of consistency in approach to parenting is part of the issue?

In our case the school has been very proactive with the imposition of consequences for the child in question. It started with missed playtimes and then being removed from the class for periods of time. Most recently he was excluded from the school disco due to his conduct. I’m not sure where it all ends but one thing is for sure, the longer it goes on the harder it will be to resolve.

I suspect this is part of the problem. If he is seeing rough play as fun with his dad, he's probably not going to understand that this isn't fun for other children.

This was my first thought as well. My autistic DS used to have a tendency to be too rough when trying to play with others (still does occasionally). He had shedloads more obvious traits at 5 as well though.

I have a nearly five year old in reception who is just like this. He's bigger than your average reception starter, has bags of energy, plays physically and gets over excited very easily. (Once upon a time, we called them totally normal naughty little boys....). He is learning the hard way that if he is rough with other children they won't play with him and he will receive a consequence from the school. We are firm and consistent with him at home and always reinforce what school has said about his behaviour.
However, I also have a perfectly lovely, normal, behaviourally appropriate 14 year old who was just like this when he started school. He was my first and I was always so worried when school said he had been rough. After many years of raising boys, I don't let it worry me anymore. Just be consistent with your consequences and routines and he will get there.

Every time you are with him and he’s rough with other children - with cousins, at the play park, at soft play - take him straight home, while telling him we don’t push, hit, play rough or no one will want to play with us. Every time. Even if you just arrived to play with cousins and it’s a family get together. Do it every time. If he likes playing with other kids it’ll soon sink in and he’ll realise if he wants to carry on playing he needs to play nicely. If he’s at school he’s old enough for this.

Are you the lady with three children aged 1/5/6 that won’t listen, who posted the other day?

I’m posting because I disagree with two other posters. I’m only one opinion so it’s up to you if it resonates, but have raised a son.

I would always say stay positive and engaged. It doesn’t have to be ‘gentle’ to give him a strong message about being gentle to others. Stay very close and pay attention. If he shoves or pushes, you get in there, stop him physically but the message you give is as much as possible simple and positive - ‘gentle hands’ ‘be nice’. If you set a boundary, keep it simple and follow it through- ‘push again and we go home’ then DO SO. If he cries or is upset, you stay calm and positive again, let your boundary do the talking - ‘you pushed Jake so we had to leave, we don’t push people’ and then talk about something else. Don’t extend the punishment further or go on and on about it.

As for rough house play with his Dad, or with you - that can be exactly where he learns to control himself, to be physical but not violent. Talk to your H about this and his views. If he doesn’t have any, he needs to start thinking and reading. Likewise this is a good time to get involved with ball skills and physically tough activities that require control - climbing, cycling, bouldering, football; all with the same rules and point, to learn to be strong and physical but to stay in control and never ever to hurt others.

He has cousins he plays with and sometimes gets carried away with them too but they are a bit older and will tell him to pack it in

How old? I’m assuming still reasonably young so I wouldn’t leave it to them to tell him to stop, and then presumably keep playing with him. I’d remove him straight away myself for any violence.

I think you’re right to be worried about his friendships. There’s a violent boy in my DD’s class (reception but most of the kids were in the attached preschool as well) who has shoved her over several times, and smacked her in the head, and my advice to her is to stay away from him. I know of times where parents have chosen not to have whole class parties specifically because they didn’t want to just leave this boy out as that’s not really the “done thing” but they didn’t want to invite him either. So they had smaller parties and didn’t invite him.

This is something you need to tackle at home, and should’ve done long before he started school.
Any violence = immediate removal. He pushed someone at soft play/ park/ wherever else, that’s it we’re going home. No ifs or buts.
Does he create a card or picture to say sorry for people he has hurt?

Of course other children’s parents will tell them to stay away from your son, there’s not much school can do. School will be telling the other children’s parents to tell their child to avoid and likely try to keep apart too. They’ve got a duty to keep the other kids safe.

I think for boys like your DS, play is so important. Unstructured play supervised closely by adults. I have a very energetic boy who used to get a bit overexcited when younger and could be a bit much but what we've always done is lots and lots of play. Soft play, playdates with friends we can trust, playground trips. And when my DS was younger, I never left him to his own devices when playing, but was always there, hovering, ready to intervene if things weren't going well. I think adults often need to model to young children how to play nicely and where the acceptable boundaries are, so this becomes ingrained as they grow older.

At five, you have time to turn things around. Set up lots of playdates with other children where you and the other parent can supervise closely. Go to the playground regularly and observe how your child interacts with other children who he doesn't know. Focus on the weaknesses in his social skills and improving those.

Could be worth looking into sensory processing - it may be that he is hypo reactive to proprioceptive input and so isn’t so easily able to sense how much force he is using (compared to those without a sensory processing challenge). OT toolbox website has some good resources on this.

I think this is good advice, but if children are running away scared from him to hide behind their mums in the playground, then realistically play dates may be hard to organise.

Hmmm.

There was a boy like your Ds in our circle of friends, wanting to be friendly (and he was a nice lad underneath it all) but getting attention by whacking the others with his book bag, barging and pushing.

This kids Dad was constantly arm wrestling, or tensing his stomach muscles and saying ‘go on , punch me’ etc.

His Dad is teaching him that ‘play’ is rough.

It’s telling that his Dad is passing it off as he’ll grow out of it. Does he also say ‘boys will be boys’?

It’s unfair to expect a 5 yo to manage ‘wrestling with Dad = good’ and ‘physical contact with friends = bad’

Any hope in explaining that as Ds is fast being excluded by friends and becoming unhappy the wrestling and roughhousing should stop until Ds has modified what he sees as play?

Wrestling with his Dad must give him great physical confidence and the idea that it’s all ok.

It's sad to see him being excluded but this is the perfect opportunity for him to understand consequences for the first time. He can't help the urge to be rough but he can learn to control it. You can help him by making him understand why people don't want to play with him, it's not because he isn't a good boy or that they don't like him it's because he is too rough. And he can change this, he can show everyone that he really is a good and kind boy and he will have lots of friends to play with. Understanding no is as basic one that many kids don't get. If a kid says I don't want to play or stop or no, then he must stop immediately. No discussion no negotiation. It's not up to him to understand why, he must always stop. This is a really common issue with kids this age (I work with this group). I think you need to reinforce this one very strongly. No means no, stop means stop etc. Then work on personal space, the invisible bubble is a good analogy. Some people don't like you bursting their bubble, if you are too close it's bursts and makes them sad. He also might be sensory seeking, doing some high impact exercise might help before play time. This could be anything from carrying heavy items to trampoline jumping. There are loads of resources online. This will help him regulate so some of the jittery energy is contained before he plays with kids his age

I agree, but if the OP can manage it, then I would in her position. One to one playdates with the children of sympathetic friends, with the OP and other parent keeping a close eye, is probably the best way to improve social skills.

Not all parents are judgmental ime. I've taken my DC on some pretty 'interesting' playdates with 'difficult' children before because the parents have asked for them. Though admittedly my older child is pretty tough as kids go and not bothered by much (the younger one is a different story and much more sensitive). The key thing is that the parents are on the same page and addressing bad behaviour consistently.

If you can't manage playdates, OP, playgrounds are the way to go. If you go to ones away from home, you're unlikely to meet anyone you know and so they're a low stakes way to observe and improve social skills, besides being generally good for getting kids outside and burning energy.

Echoing a couple of others that by year 1 I'm seeing the "naughty boys" not invited to parties, parents having more time being asked into school to discuss, seeing awkward interactions in the playground as parents encourage their children to avoid them.
Crack down as soon as you can.

Is he taller than average? We ran into this when dd was young. She was the extremely small child who absolutely got tossed around in groups.

One rough boy seemed like a giant in comparison. The first time it happened we were at a playgroup and I snapped at him. Just one sentence, but it was still an outburst. I’m not proud of that. He was a 3 year-old just like her. He was boisterous and that was definitely a problem, but really, it was his sheer size that made the largest difference. Even if he behaved the same exact way the other children did, he still would have ended up knocking my child over periodically.

My older one has this problem. He is very tall for his age. Behaviour which is acceptable and which parents don't notice in smaller children (rough play, tantrums etc) has always been much more noticeable in him.

Unfortunately it means he's always had to be held to much higher standards than his peers and I've had to crack down much more than other parents on things like shoving and pushing. If another child shoves him, no one really notices. If he shoves the other child, they'll end up on the floor.

I don't regret it tbh. I've put the work in and it's paying off now he's a bit older. His emotional regulation and self-control are much better than those of some of his smaller, cuter classmates who have always managed to fly under the radar and get away with murder. What's cute in R/Y1 is not cute in Y4/5.

I hope it's the same for your DC, OP.

I say this kindly, so please keep reading and don’t assume I’m trying to have a dig - but I think the fact that it has got to this age and you’re surprised to see he is being rejected by his peers due to being too rough and dominant means you REALLY do need to start doing things differently with him at home. I mean this well, but something has been missed here in his social learning. If you want him to have friends and not rub people up the wrong way. Being aware of others’ space and boundaries has always been something that I’ve taught mine since they were babies. I do not like being pushed around myself and I value politeness, so it’s been a priority for me to teach mine how to get along with their peers and to spot people who do not respect boundaries and avoid them.

Firstly, how would your son feel if someone behaved like this to him? I’m guessing he wouldn’t like it much? To date, he’s probably been the ‘biggest personality’ in the room so he’s not actually experienced it himself. Start by talking to him about this. Act out what he is doing to the other kids so he understands. Once that lesson has sunk in, move on to teaching him better etiquette: waiting his turn, not pushing kids over, accepting when a kid tells him to stop doing something.

First step is that you recognise the behaviour. The worst thing I see is when parents pass it off as "boys will be boys" or "he's just a bit lively" or "he's a handful" or "he's no angel but...".

I've seen and heard parents do this even after their child has wrecked a classroom (including furniture and broken technology equipment), hitting or slapping adults in the classroom etc.

You've said he can play quietly and he's just pretty boisterous and physical with other children. It also sounds like he can recognise that other children are wary of him and he's upset by this and wants to play with them, not that he's angry with them or doesn't care about them not wanting to play with him.

It sounds like he enjoys fairly rough play with cousins and roughhousing/wrestling with Dad and maybe he's just not able to understand that it's not OK to play with everyone in the same way, he's not yet worked out that behaviour changes depending on where he is and who he's with.

Does he play any sports or hobbies oustide of school? I know he's still young. I'm just thinking of kids I've seen through rugby who've learnt to use their physicality and strength and fearlessness as part of a team game while also learning that they can't do that off the field.

My boys are much older now but they've talked in the past about how exercise or working out helps to get some of that stuff out of their system and they can be calmer afterwards. Just wondering if your boy might do well if he's had more of a run around before school? Maybe a walk to school or before school or something else physical (like a trampoline or whatever)? Please don't come for me mumsnet meanies - I'm not an expert, I'm just trying to think of things to try based on my experience.

Final thing - yes, do arrange to chat with his class teacher. It's a good thing to be working together for your child, it's not a them v us thing. They've got experience with lots of different types of children and situations and approaches and you've got the unique and valuable insight into your child.