Too much too young?

[lilithxx]

Hi,
My little boy is starting school in September a week after his 4th birthday. I am also expecting my second child at around this time.
The school have asked parents to ensure that the children can wipe their bottoms, put their coats on and get themselves changed after swimming and PE before they start school.
It is against my instinct to push him towards independence at the moment. He needs to feel happy and secure when his baby brother arrives, not that he is being pushed out of the nest.
I really feel that 4 is too young for school, but his school do not have a January or Easter intake, so it would be a case of waiting till he's 5.
What do you think?

I would be tempted to wait till he's five. Is that possible for you? He just seems so young to be starting school.

I would wait till he's 5.

I think that's too young to start.

my daughter was 4 in the july and started school in the september you will be amazed how quickly they become independent and if he goes to nursery now his friends will also be going to keep him companey and he will be to busy to feel pushed out!

There's a good thread on this just now.

Lots of advice from current primary and secondary teachers.

Something to keep in mind is that they may have to repeat Y6 because the secondary school won't take them at age 10.

Let me see if I can dig it up for you, because there is some very valuable advice and input on there about the long-term ramifications of a child starting school that young.

here

Surely if his birthday is in August he would normally start school in September. I think legally you would not have to send him until the Summer Term. However it might be harder for him to join at this stage as he would have missed out on learning phonics etc. in the first two terms. Might also be slightly harder to make friends when the others are already settled and used to school.
Maybe the school have sent this letter out to encourage parents to help their children to be independent in terms of dressing etc before starting school. If there are too many people who can't get dressed and undressed after PE most of the lesson would be spent gettting dressed and undressed rather than doing PE.

If your son is struggling to get dressed after PE I'm sure they would help him..my son who is now 6 still comes home with his shorts the wrong way round after PE! Are you allowed to go in and watch the swimming? At our school parents helped the children change for the first year.

I think if you are worried maybe you should contact the school..I'm sure they will not expect too much of your son if he has just had to adjust to a new sibling.

I am assuming your son's birthday is the last day or so of August..if it is in September I would have thought he wouldn't go to school until the year after anyway.

I think wait till he is five Definitely.
You are absolutely spot on about him needing to be 'little' especially when his brother arrives. School and sudden independence at that point in his life would be quite inappropriate imho.

Well done for acknowledging this! Hope you manage to sort it out so he can stay home a bit longer...our school is superficially helpful but they do behave as though we are weird and he should be able to function perfectly 'like all the others'

So be aware that you might face some opposition or defensiveness from the school!

I think the main issue of waiting until he is 5 is that he would be put straight into Year 1 and miss out on all the play based learning, getting used to school, social issues he would get in Reception. You won't be able to keep him at home and just put him into reception next year. The LEA won't allow it unless you have very, very good reasons, which I doubt yours would be seen as. The only children I knew of while I was teaching, who were allowed to go down a year were twins who were born in August but were very prem - they should have been born in Oct so the LEA agreed to go on their corrected age.

Lots of summer born children will be in the same position as your ds. My dd's b'day is 21st August so she will go to school at 4 and a week. I am worried about it so I understand why you are concerned. However, a good reception teacher will know that the very young ones won't be as capable or as independent as the older ones, nor will your ds be expected to be. The letter will be to give parents an idea of what children ideally need to be able to do, realistically, lots will struggle.

The reception teacher at our local school is more than happy for the young ones to go part time if they can't cope with full time, that was also the case in a couple of schools I worked in. It is not compulsary for them to be in school until the term after they are 5 so he doesn't have to go full time if you don't feel he is up to it.

I think sending him part time for the first term or so is far preferable to waiting until next September and putting him straight into Y1.

I would definitely not wait until after 5 because he will miss the reception stage and go straight into year 1 which will be very difficult for him, friendship groups will have formed by this stage so he may miss out socially.

I have an August born ds too so I know exactly where you are coming from. I am just going to play it by ear, I am encouraging more independece but I am not pushing it. My ds is currently in the nursery class at a local primary and I was quite astonished and angry at how much they expected from a child who was only just 3 when he joined but he has adapted remarkably well and really enjoys it. I am sure your ds will be fine.

My dd's school also ask for them to be able to do all the things you mentioned before they start. However, most of them can't and the teacher and ta help them. By the end of the first term they can normally manage by themselves (except for their tie).

For pe they did it gradually so the first week they only changed into plimsolls, the second week they changed into shorts and the third week they changed into full pe kit.

They don't do swimming unitl year 1 in dd's school and the parents of the year 1's are allowed to go and help them get changed.

Is the school oversubscribed?

Could you turn down the sept place and re-apply for a Jan start as if you had just moved into the area.

I would look into him attending pat initially. Once he's settled and if he wants to attend full days then he can. It should be child led - especially if he's only just 4.

The problem with waiting until he is five is he will have missed his reception year which in the main is all about those independence skills in your original post. It is also about making friends and learning social skills. If you decide not to start him until after his fifth birthday please consider that the other children will have already formed close friendships and become a class which initially he will be a newcomer to. He will make friendships and become a member of the group but he may feel like an "outsider" for a short time.
Having said that as a reception teacher the school are placing high expectations on any reception child with their list. Personally I would be happy if they can wipe their own bottoms and put on coats with minimum help. I'm not sure what your school uniform is like but shirts and ties are a nightmare for young children where most can manage polo shirts with little assistance. I ask parents to to think when buying clothes will my child manage these buttons and fastenings? As for swimming we ask for parent helpers to accompany classes when they go swimming (many hands make short work of changing time).

But will you be able to wait until he is 5? The law says he has to attend school from the term when he turns 5, which means he would have to start in the Summer Term at the latest (unless you choose to home educate, which is a completely different kettle of fish).

If the school has a single intake, they can refuse to take him in at any other time, in which case you might end up without a school place for him.

I don't think you are allowed to wait until Year 1 as some posters are suggesting because technically he should be starting school in the summer term. But you can always ring up the LEA and ask.

He will probably be doing short schooldays for quite a while being one of the youngest.

I agree that the problem of holding him back till he is 5 is that in most schools this would mean him missing Reception altogether and going straight into Y1 - a big jump. And there would be no guaranteed place for him in Y1 either.

Can you soeak to the school about a staggered start for him - perhaps doing half days for a little while, etc.

I freely admit that I think it's a silly system- much better in Scandinavia where parents get a voice in deciding when they think their children are ready for school- just make sure you don't do yourselves out of a school place altogether. And none of our local schools have ties in the uniform until Year 7.

My ds started reception two weeks after his 4th birthday. You will be amazed at how quickly they get into the swing of things at school with regards to independence, the fun they have with their friends etc.

Also, if you hold him back a year he will go straight into Y1. The move from reception to Y1 is a shock for a lot of children, it will be much worse for a child who has skipped reception.

Also, if you keep him home, you should really teach him phonics etc as otherwise he will join Y1 and struggle with reading and writing.
With a new baby at home, are you able to sit down and spend time with him on this?
(I only ask as when I had dd I was soooo glad of those few hours when ds was at school)

My final question, at age nearly 4, the bottom wiping and getting dressed should be nearly there surely?

I would speak to the school. When my ds started reception he was part time until Easter, which was great! (although ds was desperately to stay for the afternoon from Christmas onwards, but the school would not allow it)

TBH I think you may be suprised at how quickly he picks up all these hings once at school, and seeing all the other children doing it too. DD even managed to be able to tie a tie and do all her tricky shirt buttons up within the first half term, but the teacher and TA were always on hand to help whenever a child needed it.

The law is he has to start school (unless home ed) the term after his fifth birthday.

I agree with Hula, they pick it up quickly and there are always TA's and parent helpers there to help.

RusselBrussel I'm a reception teacher and you will be surprised to hear that I have children starting reception still in nappies

The law says that a single reception teacher can work with 30 children without a TA. Not all schools have support from parents who may work.

If they offer and you accept the place as long as he starts during that academic year they cannot withdraw the place. Talk to his prospective teacher, ask what strategies they have in place for younger ones and whether a gentler introduction(say mornings only for a while) or a deferral might be available , if needs be . You may find after a week or two he is well settled and coping anyway.

Are you sure this isn't as much about your naturally mixed emotions about "losing" your pfb with the arrival of new baby as much as concerns about him starting school and becoming more independent of you. You may be grateful for the space to have with lo and having him able to do all those things to any extent will certainly benefit you too .

Hello
I had this problem as dd was 4 last August 30th, and was supposed to start full-time school three days later. She was absolutely NOT ready. And this wasn't a PFB, as I also have an August-born ds who was ready at 4 and 2 weeks.

I stood firm and have been sending her part-time all year. She has just started doing full days and she now loves school and is doing very well.

The school hummed and haad at first, but they capitulated quite quickly and said it was fine, and so now she is with her year group, but has had a very long settling-in period.

I fretted about DS starting reception and he has been totally fine. The teacher and TA will help out at PE and we dont have swimming in reception.

He has done all the single phonic sounds and they are nearly at the end of the other sounds, he has had numerous reading books etc. Reception is also less formal learning and more learning through play.

I would not have thought to have kept him back as going straight to Year 1 would have been very difficult as its more formal and children are expected to already be at a certain learning standard.

He would have also missed being in the nativity, harvest festival and various other things that the school did.

Perhaps you could enquire about part time for the first term rather than hold him back.