Is this normal in UK primary schools, or is my child's school unusual? (New to UK education system)

[ThatKhakiExpert]

Is this normal in UK primary schools, or is my child's school unusual? (New to UK education system)
Hi everyone,

I am relatively new to the UK education system and I am trying to understand whether my expectations are unrealistic or whether some of the things I am experiencing are unusual.

I migrated to the UK and my own education was across different countries, so I realise that school systems can work very differently.

My daughter has been at her current primary school since Reception and is now in Year 2.

There are a few things I have noticed that I am unsure about:

• I receive lots of general school communications, but very little information specifically about my daughter's progress. I normally only get to speak to her teacher at parents' evening, which lasts around five minutes. Is this typical in UK primary schools?
• We do not see her exercise books or day-to-day work until the end of the school year. Is this normal? I find it difficult to understand what she is learning and where she needs improvement.
• When I see her books, specifically English, her writing looks more advanced than what we observed at home.
• Her end-of-year reports feel quite general and mostly positive, but I don't always feel they explain clearly what she needs to improve, particularly around behaviour or areas where she could develop further.
• My daughter enjoys maths and I have been teaching her additional concepts at home, including fractions and more advanced problem solving. At one point, she was told at school that she shouldn't be learning those topics yet. Is it normal for schools to discourage children from learning beyond the year group curriculum, or do most schools try to stretch children who are interested?
• I have also noticed that children appear to be placed into different ability groups, but this is not communicated to parents. Is this normal? Do schools usually tell parents what group their child is in and how they can support progress?

I would really appreciate hearing from parents:

• Is this typical of state primary schools in the UK?
• How much feedback do you normally receive about your child's individual progress?
• Do schools usually provide more information about ability groups and areas for improvement?
• How do schools normally support children who are ahead of the curriculum?

Thank you.

Yes all typical, parents who want to be as involved as you do normally opt for private schools which give more feedback.

It's pretty standard.
If you would like more communication you can ask to speak to her teacher.

Very standard IMO. Having had experience of state and private, private were more forthcoming with their expectations of academic achievement levels and more proactive with kids who weren’t meeting them. Also quicker to respond to specific questions but less kids per class = more time so unsurprising.
Both schools encouraged parents not to “teach” at home but rather to focus on functional learning - counting money, giving change, weighing ingredients for baking, telling the time, playing card games where addition/subtraction is needed and reading, reading, reading!

Normal in UK state schools. Far less normal in UK private schools. Which is one of the reasons we moved our DC private.

We were fed up of having no idea how our DC were doing and it was perfectly apparent that they were falling between the cracks as the teacher was (entirely understandably) unable to pay much attention to well behaved kids because all their time and energy was being sucked trying to support a high level of SEND need without adequate funding.

When you realise just how poorly funded our primaries are it is truly shocking.

It’s also crazy how area dependent it all is. I’m not a teacher but see lots of schools for my job, the difference in resources etc. can be really stark sometimes.

When my 90s babies were at primary school the reading diary was also a channel of communication which regularly had “practice this or that” “ready for next book” etc in the comments. They also used to bring books home.

Many schools try to disguise ability groups from the children which is invariably futile - the children know full well that the Apples table is the top maths or reading group.

It used to be possible also to speak to the child’s teacher at the end of the day - not sure if that has died out. Ask the school for an short update on areas which need attention and areas which are strong. I never subscribed to “do not teach anything at home”.

My DC were early readers and early at numeracy - hardly surprising as they came from a home surrounding them with books and STEM PhD mother whose idea of fun was assembling machines and number puzzles…. I taught them various mathematical and scientific concepts as they were interested in them as puzzles and games.

However I also didn’t quibble that they went through the regular reading scheme from first steps and made sure they knew the “school” way to solve a problem (which also taught them there are many ways to solve problems).

Yes, that's normal. It is assumed here that teaching is school's business and not parents' business, so parents are only told the bare minimum about the academic progress. They have to pull up lower cognitive-ability children to the average standard, because that's how Ofsted measures the school's progress. Unfortunately that means that the higher ability children are often left coasting through the primary, they are not stretched (mine wasn't). If you teach your child at home and do extra work with them, they will end up extremely bored at school and likely will be used to help out others with their work during lessons. Oh, and they will not get awards for being good in their learning - everybody here at primary level gets awards for some made up things or simply for trying. The good things: they write a lot and every day, they also read a lot and get books home to read every week. Math level is poor though and many teachers are poor at maths themselves. Also, they won't learn a second language until secondary.

That is nonsense. Parents who send their kids to private school have more money not more interest.

There are plenty of interested parents in state schools and disinterested parents in private schools.

As everyone has said, that's very normal here.

My DD is in year 2 as well and is one of the more able ones. She loves maths and science but I wouldnt teach her concepts that they haven't introduced at school yet. Firstly so I dont teach her to do it differently, but also because then she'll be bored when they do it as she'll already know it.

At home we do other things to feed her interests - play games, do number and word puzzles, cook/bake together etc. Watch programmes like Operation Ouch, Deadly 60 and anything by David Attenborough. Read Little People, Big Dreams books. Horrible Histories etc. She has a magazine subscription to Eco Kids Planet. We take her to the theatre, museums etc. Talk about things she's seen and heard etc. So enhancing and running with her interests, rather than duplicating or pre-empting school.

Another to say that it’s normal from our experience of state school. The cultural focus for outside of school seems to be on reading and activities rather than more formal academics.

We use nrich for maths as mentioned above and sometimes explain concepts but haven’t taught ahead formally. I find some workbooks useful as they give you an idea of what they might be learning throughout the school year.

There is very little information offered here. We received a report at the end of the year with no explanation of the levels or how many there are. Some test scores have been reported and others have not. I’ve picked up most of my knowledge through Google and Mumsnet.

Mostly standard, although our school has parents evening every term, and I'm sure they wouldn't discourage learning beyond the curriculum.

Have you tried emailing the teacher or specifically asking for a chat? Our teacher has been quite responsive and helpful via email, although I'm sure it depends on the individual and their workload.

This is utter bollocks. If you want to be involved you email the teacher/chat at pick up/join parent council/talk to your child. Private school is for those with more money, not more interest!

Re ability groups: at primary a lot of difference in ability will simply be down to age, so not much you can do/not worth stressing about.

We had 2 parent evenings a year, one with the child in the autumn term, one without in the spring and then a very detailed school report. We also had twice termly after school drop ins (voluntary) to look at kids work books. At parent evenings, goals were shared with very clear highlights of areas on the curriculum for improvement.

If you are unsure, just purchase the CGP and Collins work books and do them with her occasionally at home. It is really good if they get a strong foundation in reading, comprehension, maths and grammar and spellings. They also do not do all that much Science in state primary so if your child is interested you could get more books there or history etc.

Generally speaking I would say though that English state primaries spend a huge amount of time on English and Maths at the expense of much else. So if you are going to do extension work, then go broader in other subjects (music, foreign languages, sports, drama, history, science etc).

It sounds like they could be doing a little bit more. Our school also send home the half termly phonics assessment results and termly maths assessments results so we know how they're doing with that. The homework shows what they have been covering in phonics that week. We've had a few pieces of homework that do a similar thing with maths. We've had a couple of Independent Support Plan (ISP) meetings as she is SEND, during which discussions were purely to do with social/personal/communication areas. You do not have to be SEND to request a meeting if you have any concerns. We also had two parent information evenings covering the curriculum, including how they teach it and how parents can support. Her report didn't feel generic, but mainly because it discussed her progress in an area she struggles with. It could be that your child is just doing well all round.

We haven't seen her books yet, but given by the description of her focus on writing at school vs her absolute inability to sit still at home, I would not be at all surprised to see a difference.

The only groups I'm aware of is reading - the scheme they do has whole class teaching of phonics, so they've all been taught the same material, but reading groups based on ability. This was never explained to us - I've found out about it from reading about the scheme they use and things my daughter has said. You can see how she's doing by looking at her books, and learning about the phonics scheme they're using. Frankly I think it's good policy not the publicise streaming in reading groups - some parents get way to competitive (full transparency, I am at risk of being one of them if given too much information!).

In terms of children ahead of the curriculum, if you're disappointed this year, I'm not sure what you're expecting during Reception? It's a lot less structured than Year 1, for good reason. They're 4/5! I think there is more focus on making sure that the whole class's attitude and behaviour is ready for Year 1, which your daughter will benefit from even if she personally was already ready.

Do you come from an Asian country? In some countries it is standard to be told your child’s rank in the class regularly so the British way can feel very strange. Until Y6 SATs you have no way of comparing your child to their peers, especially as British parents don’t like to talk about grades and results publicly. All you know is whether your child broadly meets age related expectations.

Your child will be tested every term and you can ask to see their results and test papers if you want.

I tried to help my DD with maths, but she told me I was doing it wrong. The way they teach is really different from the way I was taught, I found their way totally confusing and I think my DD found my way equally confusing so I tended to stay out of it in the end.

We have open classrooms at the end of every half term where you can go in and look at their classwork/books. But other than that, fairly standard yes.

I think one of the reasons they discourage teaching e.g. maths concepts at home before they've done them on class is that sometimes they use very specific methodology which might not be the same as what you do at home, and so DC might get confused.

I think there is also an element of not judging children too much in primary so they can be a bit reluctant to say they are doing well, or badly compared to their peers, but it sounds like she is doing really well particularly if she can cope with more complex arithmetic. And let her read any books she can cope with, one area they never seemed to mind children being ahead on.

If you think she's being slowed down you could consider private if you can afford it.

We have 2 parents evenings a year.
School reports are all positive. My special needs child's says working towards which doesn't tell me anything. But hes working at year 1 level I only know because I bluntly asked. Not when ds was there of course. But its not clear at all.

You could always ask to speak to the teacher after school.

My child is about to leave primary school (it is a state school, but I don’t know if that makes any difference).

in answer to your questions:

• I receive lots of general school communications, but very little information specifically about my daughter's progress. I normally only get to speak to her teacher at parents' evening, which lasts around five minutes. Is this typical in UK primary schools?
• This has been my experience. My daughter hasn’t had any academic problems, and I don’t know if there would have been more contact if there were areas she was struggling with.

• We do not see her exercise books or day-to-day work until the end of the school year. Is this normal? I find it difficult to understand what she is learning and where she needs improvement.
• Workbooks were available to review whilst waiting for your slot at Parents’ Evening and then sent home at the end of the year. In the last few years, the school ran termly “Open House” when parents could come into the classroom after pick up on that day to see the work. This however was only available to parents who could make it to pick up.

• When I see her books, specifically English, her writing looks more advanced than what we observed at home.
• This is not my experience. Her writing is tidier at school with fewer careless mistakes, but she writes little stories and plays at home and the content and vocabulary is much the same.

• Her end-of-year reports feel quite general and mostly positive, but I don't always feel they explain clearly what she needs to improve, particularly around behaviour or areas where she could develop further.
• Her reports have always been broken down into subject areas and given the level of attainment (greater depth/meets/?approaching) and a grading for effort. There was always something written for each subject, but for key areas (maths, reading, writing, possibly also science), there was always a section marked with something like “what to do next”. I am not sure how personalised these are.

• My daughter enjoys maths and I have been teaching her additional concepts at home, including fractions and more advanced problem solving. At one point, she was told at school that she shouldn't be learning those topics yet. Is it normal for schools to discourage children from learning beyond the year group curriculum, or do most schools try to stretch children who are interested?
• We’ve never been told that my daughter shouldn’t learn things that she hasn’t covered yet at school. The teachers have always been very encouraging and sweet when she has prattled on at them about something or other. They have not actively encouraged children to learn outside the year’s curriculum in class, but she’s never been told that there was anything that she shouldn’t have learned.

• I have also noticed that children appear to be placed into different ability groups, but this is not communicated to parents. Is this normal? Do schools usually tell parents what group their child is in and how they can support progress?
• At my daughter’s school, they are set for maths. In the later years, they were not set for other subjects. In the younger years, they did seem to be set by general ability. This was never directly communicated to parents, but the children very quickly knew that e.g. purple table found the work easier/were on higher book bands than yellow table!
• Ask at Parents’ Evening how the teacher feels you could best support your child.

I would really appreciate hearing from parents:

• Is this typical of state primary schools in the UK?
• How much feedback do you normally receive about your child's individual progress?
• Do schools usually provide more information about ability groups and areas for improvement?
• I think these are answered

How do schools normally support children who are ahead of the
From speaking to friends, I think this is variable. Some schools have very clear stretch activities. In KS1, my daughter’s school did. However, this hasn’t been as evident in KS2. Parents who had older children go through the school feel there has been quite a stark difference in the handling of the more academically capable children over time. I am unsure whether this is because of a change in SLT or because of increasing pressures on resources at the school. Certainly, the number of LSAs has fallen, and I don’t know how a single teacher can meet the needs of a wide variety of abilities in the manner that they would want to. There is a level that all children need to achieve, and if your resources are limited, then I guess you need to target them at getting the largest number to this level.

Year 6 has been pretty tough, as it has felt that the children who were already at ‘meets’ or ‘greater depth’ have had very little for them this year, as everything was so SATS-focused. She hasn’t really enjoyed it.

I have tried to take the attitude that teachers can only do so much with the resources that they have, and everyone is trying to do their best. It is fortunate to be in the position that your child does not struggle academically. It is our responsibility as parents to help give her enrichment opportunities. We haven’t tried to ‘get her ahead’ of the curriculum so we haven’t really taught her as such, but we have tried to give her broad enrichment opportunities, and just discussed things with her as they’ve come up. We’ve got quite a complementary set of interests and expertise between the two of us as parents, so we’ve been able to expand upon most things that she’s brought up so far, and if it isn’t within our skillset (e.g. she once had some historical questions on contemporary dance!), we’ve been able to signpost her as to how to get her answers.

Very standard. The once or twice a year reporting on progress is definitely an eye opener if you are used to other systems where you get grades on a weekly basis.

Very normal but some of those things are frustrating and driven by lack of funding and resources. It sounds like your daughter is well behaved and able and easy to have in class. They don't want her excelling in maths as they don't have the time to differentiate work for her. We did it anyway and most teachers just told us to carry on and teach her the more advanced math at home as they didn't have time to and weren't allowed to. She got into a top grammar school with scholarship offers from top independents so I'm happy we stretched her at home in the primary years.