private vs state primary schools in cetrnal london- myths and facts???

[beforesunrise]

hello all, i am hoping to get lots of different points of view on my query, because i am quite lost, honestly. dd1 is 2.5 and we live in nw london, at the borders of a really affluent area and a not so affluent one. we are not british so finding it really hard to navigate the system and understand the truth.

the primary schools near us all have poor ofsted reviews- and most have huge percentage of refugees/sn. there's a rc within busing distance that has an 'outstanding' review, and i have already put her down for nursery there- no gtee she'll get in of course, although we are practicing catholics so fingers crossed.

i have also put her down for all the private schools in the area, of which there are many! and it's already cost me a small fortune in application fees (which annoys me no end). private school would be just within our reach financially, but would be a big sacrifice esp considering we have 2 dds. we would prob never move out of our flat and will have to forsake fancy holidays and cars etc- which of course we'd do for the sake of our kids but still- it also means dh would always feel under pressure to work really hard and bring home lots of money, which i think puts a strain on family too.

culturally and 'politically' i loathe the idea of sending my kids to private school from age 4, but i have been scared witless by all the stories i have heard, not just of really bad schools/kids not learning to read and write etc, but also by the claims that "unless they go to private school they will never get into a decent secondary" etc.

trouble is, much as i like the people who tell me these stories, they all send their kids to private schools so i never get to hear the other side of the story. surely it can't be so bad? and there must be decent state secondaries in london too?

please please help- i am confused. will start touring schools in september but would like to go in armed with a better idea of what to expect...

It's been done to death on Mumsnet Don't go there...

The you won't get into a decent secondary school is a load of rubbish. If the child is bright enough with a little tuition before the 11+ (or maybe without) they will make it into any selective school. The good comprehensives criteria is mainly distance so what has the primary school got to do with entry. In my sons class one friend got into QE Boys, another into Henrietta Barnet, another into Haberdashers and another into St.Helens. These are children from one class in a state primary. Fees for private will almost certainly rise, adding even more strees on yourselves. Some children are not ready at the age of 10-11 for the 11+ test and fail, suddenly they pick up in secondary and amaze everyone with their test results.

I'm no expert and reading this thread with interest as just about to embark on getting dd1 into primary school. I went to private school on scholarship type arrangement yet was not of 'private school' demographic i.e we lived on an estate and I was from single working parent family. All my friends were widespread, none within walking distance of home so my social life was non-existent in school holidays etc. Ski holidays, big houses etc were the norm for children there and I just didn't belong. It's not just the fees you'll pay for private but for all the ra-ra that goes with being in that environment. The rub is that I am not sure that I got any better an education for it.

If your children are supported at home, they will do ok at school. There is so much pressure on children to succeed academically when actually the world around us is changing..in 20 yrs time a set of vocational skills may be more important than an traditional education (like the one I had), so I think we should not stress ourselves to the edge of nervous breakdowns over this situation. I met a friend recently whose dd goes to a private school in blackheath where we live. She has been advised as her dd goes into her last primary yr that the whole family must cancel all commitments as the schooling to get her to pass the secondary entrance exam is so intense. What kind of life is that for a small child ?

I accept all children have different needs and I am sure there are some children who will only thrive in a private environment but I don't believe it is by any means essential. Look around, there are loads of successful adults who weren't all blessed with a private education.

Following on from the above post - my sister teaches in one of the schools that would fit the OP's description. (Probably is one of them actually as it's in NW6).I went to see it the other day and went around the classes, and, yes, I could see that there were possibly more disruptive children in each classroom, especially in the younger years, and I got the impression that the teachers were working harder to maintain discipline than they do at my dds' school. However, my sister sends her two children there, and she thinks academic achievement is more important than I do, so maybe even the 'worse' schools are not as bad as people would have you believe.

devonblue -- we are in north westminster on the borders with brent and K&C.
i do think, if we must have state-funded religious schools, then you should ONLY be eligible for schools from your chosen denomination until all their places are filled -- which in westminster would mean that if you do the pretendy-religous thing to get your child into st josephs/st saviours/hampden gurney/etc, you'd have to accept one of the crappy ones rather than taking priority over non-believers for one of the two or three decent community schools.

beforesunrise -- i am british, and i don't get the church schools thing at all. it offends me, and if it came down to it, i would rather pay.

I just got in (late) and read this as 'pirate vs state primary schools in cetrnal london- myths and facts???'

Now that would be a good thread

Jack Sparrow for head!

I'm not quite sure what you mean, Schnitzel. I think maybe you've misunderstood what I meant.

Why would anyone who wanted a community school place pretend to be a church-goer?

I think, judging from the schools you've mentioned we go to a crappy one anyway

I just chose the nearest half-decent local school that we could get into. We didn't do the church thing - applied to local community schools first as non-believers and didn't get in. We got into a reasonable church school. (I'm unhappy about the amount of religion that's taught, but life's not perfect and other than that I like the school.) However, for DD2 it was definitely a choice between my attending church or her going to an even nearer church school which was pretty poor. (Not to mention a different school from her sister.) It was a pretty clear choice for me, though not an easy one. Sorry if it offends your principles....

.. that post came out a bit stroppier than I meant.. obviously it's still a touchy subject for me. Really all I wanted to say was that IMO in Westminster the competition for primary schools is not quite as fierce as you might be first told (though we didn't try for the very acadmically high achieving ones so I don't know about that.)

Most people I know got into a school they were happy with, which is really all that matters.

Secondaries in this borough are much more problematic AFAIK.

Have you visited any of the state primaries near you? Or canvassed opinion from any local parents? Ofsted doesn't give you the whole picture. Kingsgate school, Beckford school, Emmanuel - all in your catchment area and all decent primaries which feed into Hampstead comp, Camden school for girls and several other decent Camden secondary schools with good sixth forms.

p.s. NW6 - definitely Kilburn, no matter what the estate agents say!