private vs state primary schools in cetrnal london- myths and facts???

[beforesunrise]

hello all, i am hoping to get lots of different points of view on my query, because i am quite lost, honestly. dd1 is 2.5 and we live in nw london, at the borders of a really affluent area and a not so affluent one. we are not british so finding it really hard to navigate the system and understand the truth.

the primary schools near us all have poor ofsted reviews- and most have huge percentage of refugees/sn. there's a rc within busing distance that has an 'outstanding' review, and i have already put her down for nursery there- no gtee she'll get in of course, although we are practicing catholics so fingers crossed.

i have also put her down for all the private schools in the area, of which there are many! and it's already cost me a small fortune in application fees (which annoys me no end). private school would be just within our reach financially, but would be a big sacrifice esp considering we have 2 dds. we would prob never move out of our flat and will have to forsake fancy holidays and cars etc- which of course we'd do for the sake of our kids but still- it also means dh would always feel under pressure to work really hard and bring home lots of money, which i think puts a strain on family too.

culturally and 'politically' i loathe the idea of sending my kids to private school from age 4, but i have been scared witless by all the stories i have heard, not just of really bad schools/kids not learning to read and write etc, but also by the claims that "unless they go to private school they will never get into a decent secondary" etc.

trouble is, much as i like the people who tell me these stories, they all send their kids to private schools so i never get to hear the other side of the story. surely it can't be so bad? and there must be decent state secondaries in london too?

please please help- i am confused. will start touring schools in september but would like to go in armed with a better idea of what to expect...

snort @ nunhead village

ooooh, village, that sounds posh! i have a friend in nunhead who likes to claim dulwich park is her local....

What's wrong with Peckham? Was there yesterday buying school shoes. And they have street bollards designed by Antony Gormley, no less.

driving back from SIL's (really is Dulwich) we got stuck (literally) in Nunhead

and i was afraid

and I live in blimmin' hackney!

time for another ne london meet up i feel. can you escape from the deepest sarf scummy?

Next time you can come and see me and I will give you a fear-busting soothing cup of tea, bundle.

Ooh yes, have never met scummy in RL.

And would love an excuse to go out one eve before end of term.

Over to you, hc.

But of course, hox. I still occasionally venture over the river into the grim norf.

am a little pissed, will start a thread tomorrow when i can think of a vaguely witty title....

guys, thanks again, so much. i am now determined to really look into things a lot better. am on mat leave till january and will go school hunting in the fall, perfect opportunity.

Bamboo- the rosary is the one i have in mind. she is down for the nursery starting next sept, any tips on how to ensure she gets in??? we have priest ref already, although from a different parish.

Ladymuck- which school did you go to if you dont mind me asking?

ok dd2 lost her patience, gotta go. but i love you all!!!

where are you, margo and jerry? we've had the same problem in westminster, which doesn't cater much for the non-religious (real or pretend).

schnitzel, I am in the West End - just off Oxford Circus. I am very much non-relgious but am thinking of becoming a late convert to deal with the schools issue. Don't want to turn this into a faith schools debate but Westminster provides almost nothing for those who are honest about their atheism.

I'm in Westminster too. And we're not church-going. Our local non-faith schools have a turnover within a school year of up to 80%. That means four-fifths of the class will be gone by the end of that year. I could manage with other issues (like English as second language - that's a London-wide issue, state and private) but that level of transience just isn't something to put your children through if you have an alternative.

If I'd known it was this much of an issue, I think I might have chosen to live elsewhere - as it is, we have done the fairly overwhelmingly default option & gone private (where, by contrast, the turnover is about 2%).

margoandjerry, agreed. Not in Westminster, but that whole issue annoys me hugely. The headmistress of our local Catholic school has been known to urge applicants to lie on their admissions form

margoandjerry - I live in Westminster too. I had the same dilemma and decided that sense had to come above my principles when it came to schooling. There is some flexibility for a very wishy washy christian to pass through the eye of the needle of church schools admissions in Westminster... The other thing is that the few community schools are very highly oversubscribed too, so it's often a choice between going to church to get into a goodish church school, or not, and getting into a much poorer one, but still a church school.

However, a lot of the not too high achieving church schools do have a great mix of children from different ethnic, religious and social backgrounds, which I have found to be a good salve for my liberal conscience!

what school did you go for then devonblue? did you baptise your dc just to get in? re st vincent de paul it looks VERY religious, so I would imagine it is difficult to get into?

which school is that schnitzel? the crap church one?

margoandjerry it might be worth researching CofE schools near you as many reserve a certain number of places that are assigned on distance from the school etc rather than religious attendance. happens less often with catholic schools though, or so I'm told, despite taxpayer funding

thing is I'm buggered schnitzel. I'm 100m away from a crap church school where no one wants to go and about 1km away from the good church ones. So everyone gets a choice except me .

ha, we are about 50m closer to a poor community school than to a decent one (we are just off harrow road). dd has just got a place at the decent one after withdrawals but we'd have gone private if she hadn't. luckily for us we could afford to. the thing that most me was that westminster warned us when the first round of acceptances were over we might actually go down the waiting list if people who hadn't included it as one their six schools but fitted the criteria better wanted to be included.

gosh its so difficult isn't it? I can't afford to go private,millbank looks good, but what if dd doesn't get in? there isn't another community school nearby. do I get her baptised to get into a good school? I'd feel like a hypocrite (but saying that my whole family are devout catholics, and I used to be an altar girl I've lapsed in recent years)
I think but at the same time I don't want her to go to a crap school just because I won't do what everybody else does

I went for a local CofE school with fairly average Ofsted results and my first DD got in on a local place. The Ofsted results improved and we moved a bit further away and I had to get a church letter otherwise DD2 wouldn't have got in several years later. No baptism, and not too much church attendance. That's why I think it's not as strict as it might at first seem. Secondaries are a whole different ball game though! I think the schools can sometimes exercise a bit of discretion after the initial selection so palling up with the secretary never does any harm...
Is St Vincent's the one off Marylebone High St? Not my cup of tea, but several friends like it.

St Georges is another popular one I think - not sure how churchy you need to be for that.

Schnitzel - just trying to work out what schools you are near

no it's st vincent de paul in sw1.

it's mad isn't it. i simply don't get this whole church school thing. i mean, these are still publicly funded schools right? so how do they get away with selecting pupils... mad mad mad. i am not british, so this is all a real mystery to me. that, and the fact that people don't march in the streets to demand an end to this crazy and unfair system!