Why are teachers failing the narrative for boys, is boy playing incompatible with school

[Leteer]

Does anyone feel like boy play is deeply unsupported and thoroughly discouraged in school up to the point where boys are questioning if play is actually good / encourages boys to question if their hard wired need for play is a bad thing. Isn't this a downward spiral for boys to not support what nature gave them which could in turn affect academic work.

@Leteer

What strategies have you tried in your classroom to promote play? How do you deal with the balance of the curriculum, complaints and movement?

Ok but I was responding to you asking why 50% of car mechanics aren't male.

DD’s school is mixed. At lunch or break, not a lot of girls (if any) join in any ball games /sporty activities. Girls only after school clubs though, are full to the brim(despite being a bit tricky as a lot of children take a school bus , which they moss so they have to arrange transport) and they offer a wide selection too. Football, basketball, rugby, tennis, badminton, athletics, rounders etc.

YES!

Behaviour of men towards women in these workplaces has to be sorted out first. Misogyny, sexism, verbal and physical behaviour towards women are all unacceptable aspects of male behaviour that make some environments hostile for women.

86 -90% of hairdressers in the UK are female

They have sports teams. It's definitely more of a sporty school than when I attended. I just don't believe that girls outside of formal practice ever choose to play sports during breaks like boys typically get a game of football going or have races or something.

Definitely

There is a "play gap" kids are so low of knowledge about play they can't regulate themselves when minor things happen.

Well they do go outside and often play in schools. If that’s the extent of it, and it so happens to be wet play that day or whatever, then that’s not on the school. You’re also ignoring the fact that learning to play and interacting with peers happens a lot earlier .

We discourage pushing and shoving but allow the kids to play ball games and tag. Invariably there will be a cohort of mostly boys who ei engage in rough housing. It is closely monitored, but somewhat tolerated. They usually know when they’ve gone too far as one of them gets hurt and they understand the boundaries of their play. Boundary pushing is actually pretty important, that’s why psychologists talk about the importance of fathers rough housing their kids.

So the problem is really lack of play at home?

Yes @EwwPeoplethat’s what I’m talking about, such sexist views and language from your friend. I have a DD and DS, we had a range of toys so they played with everything, encouraging sport for both of them. None of this boys and girls stuff.

I think many men push more sexist stuff such as ‘my sons not playing with dolls’, my son used to push a doll in a pram to preschool.

As regards ‘male jobs’ such as trades and car mechanics. They are so male dominated that many women wouldn’t want to work in that environment. We have had a lot of building work done over the years and I am treated very differently to DH, I find it pathetic.

Primary teacher here, and parent of two ND DDs who needed a lot of big, physical play when younger (now channelled into sports).

Teacher training includes early childhood development, and the pedagogy of play. EYFS has play -much of it physical- 'baked in'.

Obviously, not every teacher has 'boys in their family', but we don't necessarily expect other professionals to lead from lived experience: fraud investigators don't need to have tax cheats under their own roof, nurses are not required to evidence acute medical need in the ranks of their families in order to practice well.

School is a place where children spend part of their days and as such, it is expected to hold a lot -but not everything. Schools, in my experience, understand the value of play -including physical play- but are in a difficult situation: the health and safety of everyone on the premises must be front and centre, this can't be disputed. Local authorities, and subsequently school leaders, make risk assessments to ensure this remains the case, and schools are audited by local authorities to ensure they remain compliant and have strategies and policies in place to keep everyone safe from harm. This is a baseline which schools can't get away from.

In schools, seemingly small 'incidents' can blow up: parents are, on the whole, understanding of accidents and even minor scuffles, but many are litigious and threaten legal action in a heartbeat: was my child in view of an adult when it happened -if not, why was there not adequate supervision? How come such a fall was possible -why no non-slip surfacing in that part of the playground? And on it goes. Every 'expect to hear from our solicitor' takes up a huge amount of resource in terms of evidence gathering and preparation.

With my DDs, a big part of their childhood consisted of me ensuring they had the opportunities for large-scale play their developing bodies continued to crave, right up until late primary school: visits to the park, the woods, giving over part of our (tiny) home to physical play, school clubs and extracurricular activities, play dates with like-minded DC. But I didn't expect school, in it's day-to-day business of fostering a regulated, calm learning environment to meet the lion's share of my DC's need for physical play. My DC had to read the room.

I do think we start formal education much too young in the UK though, and in an ideal world, children would attend forest school settings -yay!- or similar, until 7. They'd still 'catch up' academically, no question about it. I'm from a country where this is the norm.

Why do they pick it up as a completely optional , slightly inconvenient after school club , in quite high numbers then?

My question would be about the involvement of families - if there is a ‘play gap’ in schools, what does it show about early socialisation; nursery / pre-school; the experiences the parents have given children in the first formative 4-5 years if their lives.

As in all the other areas schools are now being asked to ‘mend’ (speech, tooth cleaning, toilet training etc etc), the roots if the problems lie much earlier, in the home and parenting.

I used to think that. I'm from a family of entirely girls. Now I have a boy and I've completely changed my mind.

Parents have to take quite a lot of the responsibility for this. Back in the day, if a child fell over or was pushed, kicked, jostled in ‘rough, boisterous play’, parents saw it as a normal part of childhood. At some point parents decided being a momma bear was the best way to show you loved your child and the constant complaints (and threats to sue when children were even slightly injured) meant schools adapted so they didn’t need to spend hours dealing with the aftermath of boisterous play, be that boys or girls.

Scene I witnessed recently. 2 kids, one boy and one girl. Both about 2-3 years old. The parents were trying to get them to play with something together but children of that age typvially parallel play. The boy got frustrated with turn taking and like a toddler of such a young age forced into a confusing scenario, he stuck out and hit the little girl. Not hard. She paused but didnt react.

The mum of the little boy started saying "aww poor petunia, what a nasty thing to do Albert, you've really hurt her". All in this sort of sad voice like he had just killed a puppy. The girl reacts to this voice and looks at the adults and starts wailing. I mean this open mouth really loud as you can howling. No tears at all.

Albert just looked so confused and crushed. He statted having a meltdown. Emily just wailed and wailed while the adults tried desperately to console her and make sure Albert knew what a terrible person he is for lashing out.

Many kids are in nursery form the age of 1. There isnt 4-5 years where the family is their only agency of socialisation.

I have 2 grandsons. One is 4 and the other 18 months. They naturally play ‘rough’ together. The younger one climbs on every surface he can get a leg up on. My daughter (their Mum) has many friends with girls, totally different she says.

I look after them one day a week. I try my hardest to ‘exhaust’ them, as I believe they need to expend as much energy as possible (and they love being physically active) so they can actually sit quietly for the short periods required ie eating/ listening to books etc.

Boys are full of energy that needs the right channelling. I’m not saying girls don’t have this problem too, I’m sure some do, but on the whole and as boys are wired differently, their needs should be accommodated to allow them exactly what they require to fulfill their potential.

This is not just a schools thing either. It’s society too.

For 'boy play' I assume you mean rough play. There is plenty of time for rough play outside school, at home, in the park, etc, if that's what you want them to do, when they are at school they need to learn that that is not the place to play rough. Funny no one wants the rough play at home either, boys invited for play dates, pushing, pinching, hitting or wrestling in the garden or the living room or hitting their siblings. Get them into sports, football, martial arts something constructive if they have a lot of energy. And don't let them come home and zone out on their devices all evening.

Also in my time some of the girls were just as bad as the boys (or worse).

Because they want to be part of the team, yes. Often these days sadly because it looks good to be involved in EC activities later down the line. They wont choose to pick up a ball and play catch without that incentive or perhaps just the formal structure of a team practice or match.

Lack of play at home and at school and the school reinforcing this by not addressing the play gap, focussing on all the wrong things

I think a big difference is also the fact that if it was genuine messing about/accidents or a fight with wrongs on both sides , we wouldn’t tell our parents anyway. Whereas now, even imaginary pushes are being reported home, never mind real ones , an investigation and consequences demanded, being shouted at for being useless and threats made. How can I tell off a child for never actually touching another child (he tripped over his own feet)?