Why are teachers failing the narrative for boys, is boy playing incompatible with school

[Leteer]

Does anyone feel like boy play is deeply unsupported and thoroughly discouraged in school up to the point where boys are questioning if play is actually good / encourages boys to question if their hard wired need for play is a bad thing. Isn't this a downward spiral for boys to not support what nature gave them which could in turn affect academic work.

As a woman, I pretty much assume most strange men are dangerous because men cause so.much harm. It isn't even most men but it is enough men to make me wary of all men. I am also aware that society excuses this behaviour in men so they get away with it.

Similarly, if a boy has encountered adults enabling girls in disrupting their games, they they wil be suspicious and dismissive of girls who want to join in. Just like I am suspicious of men who randomly approach me based on what I know about men and my own personal experiences of them.

Men could change this by acting differently and society could help by not excusing, facilitating and rewarding their behaviour.

They think its cute and funny to get the boys attention by disrupting their game. They arent focusing on trying to improve their skill at all. They just want to be part of it like they want to be part of everything and feel slighted when they are not.

I work in a Primary school, for me the issue is space. You need to remember that some of our year 6’s are approaching 6 foot tall and some of our reception children are still toddler size. The 6 foot year 6’s are still children and don’t look when they run, play or kick the ball. They don’t anticipate consequence when they whack the tennis ball across the playground to where a group of tiny year Rs are playing or run excitedly in a mob to escape someone doing the tagging. It’s easier in the summer when the flooded field can be opened, but even there we have to watch.

We do have separate areas for KS1 and KS2 but we are not a prison so they are not fenced off and balls and running children travel.

I agree, children need to play, but unfortunately there needs to be safety boundaries too.

I suppose Priya, Emily, Jessica, Susie and Billy can form a 5-a-side team without interference from intolerant boys 😁

Sounds like someone from the manosphere has landed on this thread 😬

My youngest dd has played football with the boys form year 1- 6. She found walking around gossiping boring and preferred being physically active. Her primary school had excellent PE facilities, huge grounds and plenty of opportunity for running around. She was well respected by the boys and invited to try out for county level football.

She was doing another activity at an intense level so had to give football a miss. Shame really.

I'm trying to imagine girls playing football and other sports while giggling incessantly. Nope can't.

You know what happens when even the quietest , calmest children have access to the outdoors , exposed to different activities and allowed to safely explore and express themselves ? 90% of them start joining in, they use their imagination in awesome imaginary play, they walk around instead of sitting , they explore nature and make bug dens/hotels , they makeup little games, they find their tribe. Sometimes adult lead , but then the adult trails off to encourage independent play.

Firstly you really can’t be drawing a comparison between the real and understandable fear that many women have off strange men, to boys being hostile to girls because they “fear” their lunchtime game of footie will be ruined?

Even if this were the case (and it’s not) and the “poor boys” in the schools I’ve been too were oh so traumatised by previous encounters with an Emily, it still doesn’t explain why in the instances I’ve witnessed they know Priya is a decent enough and serious player, but have still tried to exclude her or make her time on the pitch particularly difficult.

Again this sometimes happens even MORE when they see the girls outperforming them.

Oh so the boys let her play? And she doesn't run around.giggling? I wonder why they are okay with her. What do you think?

Firstly you really can’t be drawing a comparison between the real and understandable fear that many women have off strange men, to boys being hostile to girls because they “fear” their lunchtime game of footie will be ruined?

IKR?

Let her play??????
DFOD

What i can compare is that if humans find a pattern to their experiences, they will work off of those patterns.

Ive found a pattern with men being abusive, so I am wary of men. Boys have found a pattern of girls disrupting their football games, so they are wary of girls joining them.

It's no more or less than that. If something with fangs bites you, you will be cautious of the next fanged animal.

Yes, they'd been accused of not allowing girls to play. I said it is because they don't tske it seriously. That posters said their girl who takes it seriously IS allowed to play. Proves my point.

Sounds like a great line up haha

I'm trying to imagine girls playing football and other sports while giggling incessantly. Nope can't

And yet that poster seems to be arguing that situation is the norm and the scenarios we are describing of girls being unfairly excluded by boys due to sexism doesn’t happen.

I was like your daughter - I spent my break times playing football and other sports!

We had a nice football pitch and a large playground. Good on her for being invited to play at county level. It’s great we are seeing so many more opportunities for girls to play .

Ive worked in schools. No they dont. Many, many kids (of both sexes) sat around eating and chatting at breaks. It didn't matter how much space they could have used.

So you’d be happy with girls assuming your boy is a sex pest right? Go to the teacher every time he touches them, or brushes past them, has his phone out around them, looks at them etc. ?

Well I still work in schools, and that’s exactly what happens, albeit, a lot of it is more apparent when the weather is nice.

No one eats in the playground, except for a snack at break anyway.

I will of course raise by boys in ways that teach them why women might assume they are sex pests and how they can try and lessen that assumption. Both by their own actions and how they can encourage other boys and men to do the same. How they can work to protect women from other men, too.

This is the way of the world. I'm not going to tell my boys that it is unfair that women feel like that about them given VAWG. It's a natural reaction to what is the truth. Men kill women and children.

What you are describing is sexism. We are not going to pin this on Emily if boys are sexist. I won’t keep going over this.

That aside, it still doesn’t explain why in the scenarios I’ve witnessed where Priya and Jessica have shown themselves to be serious and passionate players and as good if not better than many boys, they are still excluded or treated worse on the pitch.

I’ve even emphasised that some boys became extra hostile to the idea of girls playing when the girls are doing well.

So your Emily excuse doesn’t track.

They are excluded because there have been 25 Emilys and 1 Priya. If you stop the 25 Emilys' from being disruptive and stop thinking the behaviour is benign because she is female, they will be more trusting of Priya.

You can’t even cope with your kid sharing the playground with other children! Pull the other one!

And do you think that’s because teachers have some ideological objection to rough play in the playground, or because the school doesn’t want the constant hassle from parents who no longer accept even the sorts of minor injuries that are inevitable as a result of this sort of play?

The problem with several of these is kids don't know where the limit is and when they are hurting other children.

This isn't 'boy play' this is a lack of teaching those boundaries.

The problem is parenting.

Plenty of kids manage to play in that way without problem.

What are you talking about? Who said anything like that?

Look I get that you might want to raise your sons telling them that women should trust them and it's unfair that a woman assumes he is a sex pest, but I'd never take that tactic. Women are right to be wary of men.

If you are going to make things up, I won't engage with you further. I dont condone that kind of toxic behaviour.

I think this is an exaggeration. Also, it's much less likely to be the case in an age when parents are allowing their toddlers to entertain themselves with phones and tablets and are fearful of allowing their children to run around outside, get dirty, talk to kids they don't know etc. That's why it's a mistake to blame this kind of stuff on schools. Children arrive in primary school with a range of very different, and surprisingly ingrained, behaviours, expectations and attitudes which are not easily dispelled.

You keep saying that Emily is the norm but we (myself and other posters) are saying we see many Priyas and no or few Emily’s.

You keep pushing your alleged experience of the prevalence of Emily, as if it’s a universal fact based on your son’s school.

Listen carefully : in the scenarios that I’ve seen across multiple schools over several years, it was clear Priya and Jessica were keen footballers just as serious if not more serious than the other boys and yet they were excluded.

What reason is there for boys to become particularly hostile and mocking of girls who are playing as well if not better than them if not sexism?
It’s not about Emily! In the examples I’ve seen an Emily didn’t exist and tbf the boys didn’t even claim she did.

When challenged they weren’t even able to properly justify their reasons for exclusion - it was clear sexism.

Again we live in a sexist society so it’s not surprising it will trickle down to some boys. It’s actually inevitable that it will. To pretend as if there’s no sexism in the playground in a sexist society is silly.

this is exactly what's happened to my girls. Good footballers, genuine interest, actively and aggressively excluded from games by the boys, all the more so because they ARE serious about it and CAN play. A lot of boys are currently being raised in extreme sexism and encouraging it in each other and schools haven't the capacity to address it. I'm not crying over any lack of so-called "boy play" - my experience is that boys being physical and actively excluding girls still dominates kids' spaces much more than any reverse scenario.