1 day a week of forest school while at primary school?

[Amipeanuts]

My son is struggling slightly (in Yr 2) with the school environment and as a pretty normal 6 year old needs to be outside, running, playing etc. It was a hard start at Reception but a great journey since. However, the school called me yesterday and made a massive issue about his behaviour at a school trip - when he was just being a bit misbehaved. He didnt want to go to school today and said he doesnt like his school. More to it obviously than I can write here but wondering if anyone has taken their kids out of school 1 day a week to do forest school? Or am I mad?

There was a child in DS's class who didn't want to engage. He clearly needed help. He was unbelievably disruptive. The mother refused to pursue a diagnosis which made life difficult because it restricted the support school could give because without it it's difficult to get funding. She did not want to engage or work with school. Her solution was when he was difficult to give him a tablet to shut him up and expected school to do the same.

I spent time helping the class during this period. When this child was on one the rest of the class couldn't be taught due to him being so disruptive. How are you actually supposed to make reasonable adjustments for that? With no money or extra staffing?

The school did what they could without her engaging. It was only when he became violent, hurting, bullying, using coercive behaviour to get other children to attack other and started threatening to kill children that school has no choice by to flag it with social services that school had a way to force the issue. Even then it carried on for another year. Eventually mum relented and he's now on medication. The difference is night and day and his own life is so much better because some of the kids who were genuinely terrified of him are ok around him now.

Mum said he was a lovely boy who was just misunderstood, was young for his age and it was everyone else who was mean and nasty to him. Dad was just a complete wet weekend. Her total denial and total lack of parenting was staggering. There were incidents like one party where she was stood chatting to a friend watching, with a glass of wine in hand, whilst three of us stopped him hurling a chair across the room. On another occasion a close friend of mine said he once responded to her after he hurt her son right in front of her that "he could do what ever he liked and my mum will never tell me off". He was 8 at the time and had this awareness.

So when I see parents say they had a teacher who expected them to go away and 'insist' they medicate their child and didn't make adjustments in class, I always wonder what the real story is. I suspect it's more often than not a "their life and your life would be so much easier if you tried medication because in my experience it has proved transformative for several children I've taught who have really struggled" and this is taken as insistence rather than a educated piece of well meaning advice based on experience and knowing how limited resources are for any thing else.

And I really feel for all the other kids in the orbit of that child and what their story is. There always is one.

I read this and I don't understand what your approach actually is.

How do you think the school should approach it when your child misbehaves? What does "constructive, respectful" mean in practice?

I think another option you should consider is a different school. We have two very active boys and we chose a school that suits them - it is an inner London school but has a lot of green space, access to a nature garden very nearby, movement breaks, a focus on outdoor learning and play.

Most of the other middle class parents in our area choose the strict CfE school and look down on ours a bit but it is a lot better for my kids

There are a handful of children doing a day of forest school at my kids primary. The thing is though, that forest school will really, really emphasise behaviour as there are massive safety issues if he gets up when he’s meant to be sitting, or doesn’t listen to his teachers. So do you think he would be able to listen in this scenario?

My friend has done this for her children from p1-06, she stopped in p7 as he kept missing different transition days and fun last year activities. Shes moved the day around a couple of times too as her younger son hated missing assembly. They do miss things but attendance is pretty dire in schools right now so the teachers repeat themselves a lot already. I would be ready to do more work at home if your son has any subjects he finds more challenging. It’s also obviously expensive but you’ll know that.

The boys have had a brilliant experience in the woods but it’s been logistically tricky at times. We are in Scotland so they can’t run in all weathers and if the boys are recovering from being ill they don’t love being outside in the rain for hours so they’ve had to juggle often. But the beautiful sunny days crafting in the woods and climbing trees are lovely. They have learned a lot of survival skills and are really confident out in the wilderness which is lovely to see.

The following year me moved to another country and my DS went to an international school. He did amazingly with no medication because the staff was engaged, teachers were attentive (and much better), the school had lots of strategies to use with kids like him. And classes were smaller. My son didn't need drugs, he needed a school with resources, that could help him. Unfortunately, it does mean money and state schools are terribly underfunded.
But it's one thing to say "your son needs medication", another to say "we don't have the money to accommodate your son's needs so please give him drugs".

So a school with smaller class sizes was able to suit his needs better? Shock of the century. A state school not being able to meet your son's needs wasn't necessary the fault of the school itself. You even highlight lack of funds yourself. Yet you seemingly still blame them for not being able to support your son in the same way the other school could?

Yes, I do. They didn't seem bothered or willing to help, they just pressurised me to give him medication, as if I was being very unreasonable by wanting them to do their job properly. And they had no understanding of the needs of ADHD children whatsoever.

Their reaction to his misbehaviour might seem heavy-handed to you, but naughtiness that seems minor when you're in charge of your own one or two small children is a completely different kettle of fish when you are in charge of a large group of other people's children, especially off-site surrounded by the public. Ensuring good behaviour in this scenario is a serious safeguarding requirement, not the school being disciplinarian.

So many of the comments bandied around disparagingly these days about schools being 'one size fits all' completely fail to understand how incredibly difficult it is to do otherwise in a school with hundreds or even thousands of children and only a limited number of staff and space!

Obviously some schools/teachers handle SEN needs differently, so I cannot comment at all on their ability to "do their job properly" as I don't personally know them. However, I'd be interested in your definition of "do their job properly". What exactly was it that you wanted them to do/try that they didn't? Was it really them as a school failing your child, or the system itself? You cannot compare that school and what they did to the school your moved him to and what they did, as the contexts are completely different. One was clearly more catered to meeting his needs than the other.

A mainstream schools not being able to meet the needs of an SEN child does not automatically equate to them not "doing their job properly". I'd be interested to hear exactly what you wanted them to do.

If they truly believed that suggesting you look into to medicating your ADHD diagnosed child was in his best interests, in their experience, they were well within their rights to suggest it, as people who were responsible for his education. As his mum, you had every right to ignore that advice if you were against it. That doesn't necessarily mean the school did anything wrong in suggesting it. You just had a difference of opinion.

I completely agree. “A bit feral” in my experience actually means massively unruly, unsafe and disruptive to the other children.
You clearly don’t think this school can provide what he needs, so move him. Either to another school who also probably won’t be onboard with feral behaviour or home school where he can be as feral as he wants.
At what point does his feral nature become an issue? 10 years old? 15 years old? Not all children act like him and you can guarantee that the head wasn’t ringing lots of parents to discuss behaviour. Sugar coating this behaviour won’t do him in any favours in the long run.