1 day a week of forest school while at primary school?

[Amipeanuts]

My son is struggling slightly (in Yr 2) with the school environment and as a pretty normal 6 year old needs to be outside, running, playing etc. It was a hard start at Reception but a great journey since. However, the school called me yesterday and made a massive issue about his behaviour at a school trip - when he was just being a bit misbehaved. He didnt want to go to school today and said he doesnt like his school. More to it obviously than I can write here but wondering if anyone has taken their kids out of school 1 day a week to do forest school? Or am I mad?

Presumably the school deal with "normal six-year-olds" all the time and have a pretty good idea of what they're typically like. So the fact that they've brought his behaviour up with you suggests it isn't particularly typical. And based on your description - sorry, but most six-year-olds can sit still when asked. It isn't the school who have the wrong idea here.

The trouble with taking him out one day I week is that inevitably that means he will miss a chunk of the curriculum and will constantly be trying to catch up when at school. Is that going to be helpful to him? It might be better to look for after school activities.

Can't speak for the UK, but this was pretty common in other Western countries in the 90s, except they didn't call it ADHD, they called it 'hyperactive'.

We cycle or scoot to school and back most days! Its not enough but we are in a small local school and theres not much choice for activities - especially ones that allow for energy release!

What would happen if the whole class did that? Would it compromise safety and prevent future trips?

Most primary schools have forest areas and run timetabled sessions using them. It doesn’t mean running wild in a forest though, they are usually given activities to do which will still mean sitting and listening, following instructions etc.

Oh, sorry, they didn't. You were there, not me, right? Silly me.

Yeh, it's about learning how to manage dangerous situations like fire and knives so listening very important

"By feral I mean that he was running around instead of sitting when he was asked to, "

This is actually a massive deal on a school trip. I'm not surprised at the schools response. Again, please don't minimize this. Minimizing and showing your DS you're not supporting the school will do much more damage to your DS than the schools response.

But also, the forest school has no obligation to take a child in the same way a state school does. If he is doing that at Forest school they would be well within their rights to refuse him a place.

How long is his scoot to school? Can you go a long way round to give him more time? Cycling and walking use more energy than scooting. So perhaps switch it up? You want a good 30mins if you can.

You don't need paid-for activities, but lots of outdoor opportunities. Walks in the woods are great so it's not just the walking but the climbing and problem solving too. Same with parkour if there is a park with a safe set-up.

Heavy-work is also good for more "lively" kids. My 7yo does the hoovering to tire him out sometimes. Carrying bags of shopping is good. Gardening in great. It doesn't really matter if it's useful, just raking the leaves into random spots and doing it again the next day into different spots would work.

In relation to my child, some of it was due to immaturity. They really just weren't ready for school. In some countries children don't really start school until 6 or 7 but we force 4 year olds into chairs and expect them to be still, listen and behave. Certainly my DC couldn't do that!

But also there was underlying SEN (denied by the school, we have had to get private diagnosis). But yes, being a bit feral describes the behaviour really! Forest School day is their favourite day of the week.

OP you sound like a permissive parent that thinks their child should be allowed to do whatever they like. If that's the case then it will be better for everyone if you homeschool him.

In the countries were they start school at 6, they are expected to be sitting down learning all day, its not like Reception class two years later.

OP if you think an alternative esucwould be better for him, then look into it. But all schools will have and need rules.

One of my children loves being outside, explores, is interested in nature, can be a bit boisterous. They know that it’s not about them doing what they want and mean school saying stop it’s having expectations that allow everyone to enjoy themselves, we have the same approach when out with the children. So they can run, explore and have fun but need to listen to basic instructions. They’ve attended forest sessions in school holidays and they love it but it’s not a let loose and do whatever you want, there are still rules there you have to follow, especially when using a sharp knife or saw or when near the fire.

What would you have said if he pushed lift buttons or didn’t come with you when out together?

Oh come on! No one forces 4 year olds into chairs! That’s just oft-repeated hyperbole

However, the school called me yesterday and made a massive issue about his behaviour at a school trip - when he was just being a bit misbehaved.

They should make a massive issue. It's a safeguarding issue. He was off the premises. They can't have that as it means he's a danger to himself and others.

Being a bit misbehaves misses the point that they need to have well behaved children for a school trip. They don't have the capacity to deal with a child who is missing behaving off the limits and keep an eye on the other kids at the same time.

Is he being assessed for additional needs? If so where are you for this?

There is a problem here. They will not allow a request without going through process first. Many schools will not initiate anything to do with additional needs until it hits a real crisis (this isn't one). They expect parents to initiate.

The school calling you like this, means you start making this a formal process. It doesn't sound like you are yet and tbh in yr2 it's unlikely anyway as they don't like to start them until age 6 anyway.

And a note of caution. Do you think the solution to not being able to cope in a school environment is going to be letting him run around at forest school and fall behind in other work? Do you not think this will lead to further disruptive behaviour?

How's he going to cope with situations later in life? He still needs to work on behaviour. Additional needs are not an excuse for poor behaviour. You still need to address the behaviour.

And from what youve said I suspect you havent really tried any in school options yet. Or got a diagnosis.

You need to start with soft options before going this far because it won't really deal with the underlying issues.

There may be other things you can do within the school setting first. The first is walking to school - this has actually been shown to make a massive difference to ADHD kids. Then there's time outs where he could do a supervised run around the playground if it all gets too much.

A managed forest school option only works if the school have a working relationship to do this and timetable everything around it. You certainly can't do this mid year. It's a long term discussion in partnership with the school over behaviour not a decision that parents make because of a singular trigger and enforce on the school. You will only end up at logger heads with the school.

Thank you for the constructive comment. Its about 10-15' to school (as I have a little one too and she is slower!) - but yes, not enough. What I type here is not what my response was to my child. I did reiterate that all schools be it this one or another have rules that we have to adhere to but the schools approach and how he was handled at this "bad" moment dont minimise the shaming and doesnt help with discipline. This all comes from a place or care and concern. Making a 6 year old (and specifically my 6 year old, all kids are different) feel shitty about a bad day wont help the next day. If my boss is being an ass at work and I constantly feel like I have someone out to get me, Im probably going to feel more self conscious and much more prone to doing something wrong. I feel very strongly about disciplining the kids vs shaming them for a bad behaviour. And I am allowed to have that opinion, for those who have come on here to judge my "permissive" parenting and my "bad behaved child". I might take you up on that advice and take a longer route to school - that might kickstart the day with a bit more of an energy release.

Asking for forest school is not because forest school is loose - is because my child needs more outside time, less time in a classroom. A school trip wasnt a trip to the woods - it missed 2 playtimes of the day and there was more sitting/listening than there is in the classroom. Asking for advice on how people that have similar children to mine are doesnt warrant an attack/judgement on my parenting. No one has to respond to this post and sometimes if you have nothing good to say, better not say anything at all. Thanks to everyone who has contributed positively.

I hear you. That's a great take on things. We have no additional needs or diagnosis - I think its purely a matter of stimulation and external home factors playing a role in this one incidence of misbehaviour. I do see your point about taking him out 1 day and how that might affect him/his progress later on and I definitely don't want to make this worse. It seems like a heavy response for the context of what happened and my concern is how this has been reiterated back to him, not that he was told off for not behaving as he should have been expected to, if that makes any sense. I wouldnt tell my child if we were on playdate and he was acting feral that there wont be any other playdates if he doesnt act properly. I wouldnt use this type of approach to discipline - and defintitely wouldnt threaten in this kind of way. So I expect the school - who know more about me when it comes to discipline, to have constructive proportionate reactions to what happened and go about this in a way that the child understands and wants to be better - without feeling like they have committed a massive crime or become a "bad" child. This doesnt mean I allow my child to act in anyway he wants but I surely try to discipline in a constructive, respectful way and I dont expect a 6 year old to give me a lecture back about how his behaviour was and how apologetic he is about it. A simple "I was silly at the school trip" will do.

I'm sorry but it sounds like
a) you think the school should discipline in a way you feel appropriate whilst simultaneously saying that you think school know more than you
b) basically have completely undermined what they school has said rather than being consistent and backing them up. Your DC will know he can muck about and mum will say the school were being unreasonable and not to worry about it flower. So won't change their behaviour
c) one of the points of being told off is you aren't supposed to like it. You shouldn't enable them getting out of being told off because they don't like it. There's a way to stop this and that's by behaving.
d) it's not up to the school to be constructive on everything. You have the power of being constructive and taking the initiative.
e) never argue with the school. You will get no where. It will just lead to conflict.
f) it doesn't sound like you've had a single sit down meeting with school about his behaviour. You have offloaded all responsibility to school and don't want to take any on yourself. Arrange a proper meeting to discuss needs. Ask questions like 'do you have any advice?', 'is there anything we can do together?', 'do you think it's worth looking at assessment?' WORK WITH THE SCHOOL.
g) the option of forest school at this stage is therefore massively premature and to be frank, smacks of you not really being arsed and looking for quick fix solutions. If you have a child with issues like this it's a long haul. Your best option is always to be the schools best friend and always be willing to ask questions, let them take the lead and try options. If that option isn't working you then challenge with reasons why and work towards to come up with the next plan.
h) you 100% have to be consistent and back up the schools approach though. They have hundreds of other kids. They have to cater for ALL needs. They have to be consistent with behaviour. They do not have the option of soft parenting styles or it would lead to chaos and other kids either acting up or feeling hard done by.
I) you need to build a case for every reasonable adjustment your child might need. You can't just go in and demand x, y or z. School will very quickly shut these down as unreasonable and unjustified because you have created a narrative as to why that particular approach is suitable. You can make suggestions as part of a discussion but they also may say no if they can't support it for a whole host of reasons.
J) you need to engage. Your whole attitude so far on this thread misses the mark. You can not just minimise, deny, undermine. If you do it WILL spiral and get a lot worse before it gets better.

A kid in my son's class had parents who did everything the wrong way. He was violent to other kids. They refused to engage. In the end it reached crisis and social services became involved and it nearly broke the family up before eventually they decided to go through the formal process. During this time all the other parents distanced or made complaints and the poor kid got into a right mess socially. It was truly awful for everyone concerned. Don't be that parent. The kid is now on medication and is so much better - it's so much better for everyone but the whole class has suffered over the years because of his behaviour.

Work WITH school. You do what they ask and you don't make unreasonable demands which are tone deaf to the fact the school has so many other kids too. Build a case. Go through due process. There are no magic bullets or quick solutions. The sooner you intervene the better for all.

We've also got a Duracell bunny kid. You sometimes need to be stricter with them than other kids precisely because of this. They are more at risk if you don't.

Also re forest school - it's not just running around like a loon. Anything that is adventurous needs greater discipline than not because there is greater risk. DH runs scouts. They can only do adventurous fun stuff if the kids behave. This is the best form of bribery. It's just not viable if the kids are dicks who don't listen. So keep this in mind...

Honestly. You have a long road ahead of you....

I wish you well.

Thanks!

You need to change your attitude.
Your child is not the centre of the known universe.
Your attitude on this currently his biggest problem.
Taking this attitude will make your road longer than it needs to be.

This! Do it!

It takes courage to go against the grain of culture but all the research is very much on your side on this. I honestly think we’ll look back at the lack of movement in education and think much the way we do about corporal punishment now.

Whilst I agree wholeheartedly that school provision doesn’t suit every child, are you convinced that one day a week at Forest school is going to fix his issues? He still has to spend 4 days at school.

Schools don’t call home when a child is ‘just being a bit misbehaved’, teachers deal with slightly misbehaving children daily and don’t phone home for nothing. You will probably dismiss this as you have others saying similar but your DS’s behaviour needs addressing. Work with the school, not against him. You really aren’t doing him any favours by minimising his bad behaviour and the impact on others.

Thanks again!