1 day a week of forest school while at primary school?

[Amipeanuts]

My son is struggling slightly (in Yr 2) with the school environment and as a pretty normal 6 year old needs to be outside, running, playing etc. It was a hard start at Reception but a great journey since. However, the school called me yesterday and made a massive issue about his behaviour at a school trip - when he was just being a bit misbehaved. He didnt want to go to school today and said he doesnt like his school. More to it obviously than I can write here but wondering if anyone has taken their kids out of school 1 day a week to do forest school? Or am I mad?

I asked the same amd it was a flat no from the school, so,I hope you get a better response. My child did so much better in an outdoor environment and the forest school would have helped immensely. Instead he was increasing unable to go to school and never made in the end. Home ed forest schools tend to have a higher rate of children with differences, as it's their parents who are forced into home educating eventually.

Im sorry about that - what did you end up doing for your little one? I feel completely out of my depth with homeschooling and dont think Id even know where to start so I would like to find a balance between the two but as I can see it its not very possible, unless the school is supportive of that and I dont believe this applies to my sons. Its a CoE school too so slightly more traditional in their ways I guess.

You're talking as though school treated him terribly and 'shamed' him. As far as I can see, all that happened was

1. The teacher told him his behaviour wasn't acceptable. I'm not sure what you think they should have done?

1. Then the headteacher told him his behaviour wasn't acceptable - which suggests his behaviour was rather poorer than a couple of minor incidents.

1. Their voices weren't 'nice' - their demeanour showed they were unhappy at his behaviour, because they were.

1. He may have been told that if he couldn't behave appropriately he wouldn't be allowed on future school trips? Which is an entirely reasonable response. If you're not able to behave appropriately for you environment then you can't be in the environment. This isn't a 'threat', it's intended to reinforce that sensible behaviour is required for the safety and benefit of the whole class. If they don't teach him this, and you don't teach him this, how do you think he'll learn it?

As others have said, he'll get exactly the same response if he can't behave appropriately for the forest school environment.

Do you believe they would be honest with you if you expressed dismay at the schools’ take on his behaviour? I think most parents would tell you what you want to hear rather than telling you something that might upset / annoy you. At best they might be non committal as in ‘oh I don’t think your DS was too bad as far as I could see’.
As has already been suggested, arrange to go into school and meet with the relevant staff for a full debriefing on what happened, with an explanation as to why they thought it was unacceptable. If you look at each incident in isolation that paints a different picture to looking at several incidents as a whole. That’s always the case in school. A child may receive a consequence for tapping their pencil repeatedly, but in reality they may have done many other small things up to that point.
If the school try to tell you that he may not be allowed to go on any more trips, gently remind them that this is in fact discriminatory, and you would expect appropriate measures to be put in place to ensure he would not be excluded.

If not actually supposed to talk about a child's behaviour if I go on a school trip. It's part of the briefing of volunteering. I have to say I probably wouldn't be honest anyway if I was directly asked because it would put me in an awkward position with the parent. Not only that but I don't see all the behaviour of all the kids on a trip - just the ones near me for the day. Just because they didn't see something wouldn't mean an incident hadn't happened. Given the number of parents I see on trips who are so bloody absorbed with their own children and don't may attention to any of the others this really wouldn't surprise me anyway. (Not to mention the amount of stuff I've seen parents turn a blind eye to is staggering especially their own kid. It scares me slightly).

Ultimately the school aren't just going to make something up for no reason whatsoever.

Happened at my DC's school (went to a nursery not attached to the school so we weren't aware). Predictably, massive behaviour issues. Needed a fully hands on parent/school behaviour focus, meetings etc for over a year.

A year later, Deputy Head said, 'Some children just aren't ready for school at 4.' A pity that hadn't been the attitude when DC was in trouble for being too loud, boisterous and massively unhappy (toileting accidents, not sleeping, screaming at the school gate etc).

We've stuck with the school because the friendship group is lovely. But the attitude to educating little children is shit.

Again, NOT in our experience. The environment is very different and the active, hands on approach is nothing like sitting, looking at a whiteboard, being talked at.

Active children thrive in FS. To be fair, quieter children probably would too!

I have a couple of friends whose children I find very hard to be around due to their behaviour. But if their parent was up in arms about what a teacher said I probably would try to placate them and say they ‘weren’t too bad’ rather than agreeing that they were being holy terrors.

The thing is, without you being there you don’t know exactly how bad his behaviour was and how it affected the rest of the class. The lift he pressed the button of a couple of times - Sometimes if you call a lift when someone has just got in the doors will open again and it will prevent a full lift from leaving, causing a delay for the people in it and the people waiting for it to come back. So if the lift was full and his group were waiting to be in it next and he pressed it that would have delayed things - and if he was told not to press it as it was holding everyone up and he did it again then he wasn’t just being a curious child he was being wilfully naughty.

The puddle - if they were on the way to somewhere and passed a big puddle then unless they were going to a farm or anywhere they won’t have been in waterproof clothes and shoes. And would potentially be in damp shoes and socks all day. So a teacher will have pointed out big puddles and reminded the children not to go in them. If he chose to purposely ignore that instruction and soak himself and the children around him then that will have annoyed the teachers and the other kids. Wanting to run about and play is different to actively going against a teacher’s instructions.

I used to work in a nursery in a city centre and took 3 and 4 year olds all over the city on trips. None of them were ‘a bit feral’ as that wouldn’t have been safe. If 3 and 4 year olds can manage a trip with sensible behaviour then I’m sure a 6 or 7 year old can.

I actually home educate my daughter, and she attends forest school, but I still expect her to listen to other adults and do what she’s told.

We are in the middle of having an eotis package put together. He needs are a bit too complex for school at the moment. I hope in future he will be able to transition to a special school. I do think if teachers had the ability to be more flexible, my other child would have managed mainstream for the whole of primary. At their special school they have things like movement breaks, lessons on understanding what their body is telling them, plenty of social stories for upcoming events and seating with things like wobble stools and cushions. All things that would benefit mainstream children too.

Does his primary not provide Forest school? I thought they all did now. DD’s class does it one day a week.

Errr definitely not.

Some schools are in the middle of the city and have no green space at all.

If you expect “respectful punishment” in the English school system the you are being very unrealistic. It starts with “Behave or you lose playtime” all of the way through secondary and “Behave or you cat go to prom”

My kids have been told off during their school years but each new day was treated as a clean slate which incentivised them to be their usual (well behaved) selves again.

Not the point of the thread but some parents would be complained about the puddle jumping. For example if their shoes and trousers were wet all day then they’d be blaming the teachers and assuming not enough warnings. Similarly if he splashed another child sufficiently then another parent may be pissed off with your son and the school.

You shouldn’t use feral so casually btw. I would not describe that as feral. I would say that physically attacking someone or destroying a museum display is feral. Standing up before told to is annoying for the adults but definitely not feral- especially if it’s unusual for your son to do this.

I think that if you find a forest school then ds will want to go every day. The unfortunate reality is that the current school system is about learning the info to get to the next stage of learning whether it’s y2 to y2 SATS or GCSE to A-level. Unless you home educate, your son has to suck up the system which is about creating students with qualifications like GCSEs. My son sounds like yours and he was amazed how many interesting courses college provides. He picked his passion which unfortunately requires GCSEs which I couldn’t teach him like school could. He enjoyed school for the social angle and college was the first time he enjoyed the academics.

My class of 6 year olds know that the only time I would shout is when someone is being unsafe.

This would include someone running off to a puddle or a lift button on a trip. If I’m standing with 29 other children and one child dashes across a path to a puddle, I might think they’re running towards a road and shout stop. I would also be cross that they hadn’t followed my instructions and acted in an unsafe way.

If they run to a lift to press a button they might knock over a member of the public or jump onto a lift and end up who knows where. I would shout. The behaviour might seem small but it’s incredibly disruptive and stressful for the staff and demonstrates a child cannot be trusted to be taken off site.

I give clear expectations of behaviour before a trip that are designed to keep all children safe. Anyone not following the instructions would be clearly told to stop and told off. They would also be spending the rest of the trip holding my hand.

With a ratio of 1:6, schools cannot gently guide each child and follow their lead. It’s not like when you go out as a family and you can solely focus on your child.

Please explain how you think the school should have dealt with it differently.

Have you asked the school if they have a forest school programme?

My DD has benefited from a term of forest school each year in primary so far. It’s not for everyone and is for a select few who would benefit from an alternative setting for a period of time. We don’t pay for it and all the logistics etc are sorted by the school.

she might have ADHD (awaiting assessment) and thrives on moving about and practical learning so it’s been ideal

I think posters are just curious as to how the teachers could insist on a 5 year old being on ADHD meds.
Teachers do not diagnose ADHD.
A diagnosis of ADHD is nearly impossible under 6 (it is vanishingly rare on the UK at this age). Otherwise, on rare ocassions, ADHD meds can be prescribed by a clinical psychologist after consultations... so to hear that a teacher can just insist they are given... well, it seems unusual!

I'm afraid l agree - trips are an absolute headache for school staff and if you have to keep telling one child the same thing, and watch them, it means you can't watch the other kids as well either. Sorry OP.

They didn't insist directly, of course. But pushed very hard for me to take him to the GP, to "get help", to "do something". They didn't think it was their job to accommodate his needs, but expected me to do "something". They never offered to make any accommodations.
He was assessed for ASD by a team of experts at St Thomas and was diagnosed with ADHD (it was very obvious, but that was official confirmation). I had to be very clear at the time that I didn't want to medicate him. He was maybe 6 at the time, I don't remember exactly, but I had been pushing for the assessment for years by that time. He didn't start taking ADHD medication until he was 13.
So, in a nutshell, school couldn't be bothered to help him and wanted the easy (for them) solution.

So, the teacher's suggested he may have ADHD and advised you to get a diagnosis, which you did and he was diagnosed with what the teacher thought. The teacher also advised medication, as did the dr. The teacher has likely taught at least 2-3 children per class with ADHD and has seen the positive impact medication can have. (That's what convinced me to try medication when my 6yo was diagnosed - years of teaching and seeing the difference medication makes).

I don't understand the anger towards the teacher here? They were correct?

It sounds as though school were flagging their concerns, because they could see that your son needed extra support in some way. If this was with behaviour or struggling with learning and attention, did they help with the referrals for a diagnosis or have any professionals in to assess? It's shocking if they did absolutely nothing, I can't even imagine how would they be able to mange that!

No they did not. YOU would have gotten a diagnosis and been recommended medication. YOU would have then had said medication. Informed school about the medication. Then decided you wouldn’t give it to them unless it suited you. Your child then continued to struggle at school whilst you could have helped.

That's what happened.

I agree, it seems an entirely appropriate and sensible approach. The school have a responsibility to keep all the children safe on a trip, if the child is not following instructions that could potentially very dangerous and is a serious issue. It is right that your child is firmly told that this is very dangerous and therefore unacceptable. I'm baffled as to what reaction you expected from them, they've done all the right things to help your child stay safe in future.

OP have a look at this group on Facebook, they’re really helpful if you want to learn more about flexischooling and how to go about asking for it.

I agree with others that your attitude is the issue here. You aren't supportive of the school, which your DS will have picked up on, causing him to act out more because he knows mummy won't tell him off. All the behaviour you list isn't OK in a group setting, essentially he isn't following instructions and if every child did that, the trip would very quickly become unsafe.

You should look on the school website and see if there is a flexi school policy.

What was the behaviour OP? You have to remember that on trips, staff have many other children to look after as well in an environment which is very different to school.

Thanks so much - I will have a look at this. Much appreciated x