Y4 In year admissions for next week, advice/anecdotes please

[mysodapop]

Opinions please:

Waiting for an in-year admission place for next week for Y4. Applied to 2 nearest schools, first choice under the exceptional social/medical criteria (bereavement, kinship care, but no Looked After Child status as family took in). Can only apply under this to one school.

Child has not currently got a place for next week. Is number one on the waiting list for first choice and nearest school under exceptional social need criteria, number three for second choice school. Council are apparently waiting to hear from next nearest school (not very near, not very suitable) as to whether they could offer a place now.

Should I hold my nerve for next week? How likely is it do you think that she will get offered a place at first choice school, in year admissions, at number one on waiting list for a one form entry school?

Or second choice school, 2 form entry, number 3 on list?

What happens is she has no school next week? or I decline a last minute place that they might come up with at third nearest or some other random school? How long can I keep her at home after the term officially starts to wait to see if someone doesn't turn up at first choice school? How likely is this?

If you decline a place then you may find yourself without one longer term as council has no obligation to actively look further. You could appeal but that would take time, or remain on waiting lists and hope a place comes up. If all schools are “full” the council could use Fair Access Protocol to force one to go over its class numbers.

Do not refuse a place! As above, they will no longer be obliged to help you once they've found you a place if you choose to reject it. If a place is offered at this other further away, less suitable school for now it's not great but it doesn't have to be forever, she can remain on the waiting lists for the other preferred two schools. If you turn it down, you'll be on your own.

Good luck, I really hope something suitable comes up soon for you in what must already be a very difficult situation.

I'd talk to the council. Given the bereavement they may be flexible and allow you to hold out on the waiting list.

This sounds tough for you, and after a bereavement too. As she is not classed as a Looked After Child, you are waiting on someone leaving the school. You might get lucky, as someone may have moved over the summer holidays, but it really is a waiting game.

If you get offered somewhere you don't like, you could choose to decline the place and appeal for schools you prefer. You wouldn't get in trouble for keeping her at home (you could temporarily home educate) but you might not feel that was the right option for either or both of you. There is also the risk that the appeal won't be successful and then you still have no school place. Another option would be to send her to an offered school and appeal your preferred schools, but this is quite disruptive.

If they can't find a suitable place, then look into Fair Access Protocol as the PP mentioned.

I would encourage you to think carefully about why some of the schools are unsuitable. (No need to share here). I do appreciate this girl has had a tough time and needs to be well supported, so it is right that you are carefully considering. However sometimes schools are better than they initially seem. For example some people are wary of big schools as they feel a more personalised approach is needed. However big schools often have more resources and a larger pool of pupils, so it can sometimes be easier to find like-minded peers. I'm sure you are doing so already, but it is often worth considering a school fully before rejecting it.

Adding to this, you usually have to take up a school place in about 3 weeks. You could consider agreeing a start date at a school a few weeks away to give some time to see if a place comes up elsewhere.

It is definitely worth appealing - the Infant Class size cap obviously doesn't apply here, which should give you a good shot.

Thanks all for your replies, really helpful context. What I dont quite understand is how far will they go asking surrounding schools if they have a year 4 space before I can appeal? Can they go out to surrounding towns or further but still within county? Obviously what I would really like under the circumstances (social worker wrote a letter of support etc) is for them to ask nearest school to take her off the top of the WL as child 31 under FAP, but how do I ask the council to initiate that? Do I have to wait until they eventually find a school that has a place and make an offer and then say I want to appeal for FAP? Do I accept or decline that place?

You can appeal for any school which turns the application down, even if you are offered a place elsewhere.

As soon as your application fir the nearest school has been rejected you can appeal.

(My anecdote is that unfortunately my then Yr4 was out of school until October half term. We were actually offered another nearby school but that was irrelevant to the appeal. They were looking at all schools in a 45min radius of our home, and the offer included transport)

Ok that's interesting to know. Bear in mind they havent officially notified me that school 1 and school 2 didnt take her and that my application has been rejected. It still says pe ding. I haven't heard anything officially with reference to my application (made on the 1st July, when their in year admissions portal opened, I was not able to apply any earlier, despite talking to the council since January, knowing she would need a y4 place with me in September with Child Arrangements Order etc).

I phoned school admissions at the end of July and midway through August to ask how the application was proceeding and was told, its school holidays now, no one is at the schools to ask if they have space (all are coordinated admissions though ..) nothing will happen until last week of the holidays when everyone is back (no shit). I then phoned after the bank holiday and was told by the helpdesk person (only way you can talk to them) that she was no 1 on WL and no 3 on WL for the 2 schools I made an application for and that they were now asking 3rd nearest school if they had space and were waiting to hear from them.

I do have an email contact for someone in admissions. Shall I email them and say I now understand my application has been unsuccessful, can I please initiate appeal proceedings for school 1 and ask for them to initiate FAP protocols?

My worst fear is an offer with transport. I cant put a bereaved, traumatised 8y old in a taxi to to somewhere where she knows nobody (which would be a fourth place since her mum died at Christmas). We both work full time, and have to continue doing so to bring up her and her sibling as we arent receiving any assistance as we are 'only' kinship carers not foster carers and the council never took them in where they started so they have never had LAC status (what family leave shocked children that have discovered their mother's body before school to go into care and doesn't go and get them?) so we cant drive her out of area, the school has to be nearby as we also have to take older children (ours and her sibling) to their secondary schools.

Anyway, I digress. I think I need to initiate an appeal and would be very grateful for any advice.

I would recommend calling the schools directly as soon as the school offices open
I found the council said they emailed the schools but the schools seemed to know nothing about my application
If you can find the contact info for the person in charge of school admissions at the council I would email them as well

There is no cap on the number of children in a year 4 class (30 cap only applies to KS1), so they should be able to admit a 31st child if they choose to. Ring your preferred school on Monday and explain the full situation, the special cercumstances of the child, and why you are particularly keen for him/her to attend this school. Ask if the head can call you back or when you might be able to call again and speak to him/her (will be leading INSET but will have some time during the day). Do the same with your second choice. Let both schools know how keen you are on the school and if you have to wait until the end of the week, so be it. The LA admissions team are just doing things by the book. The schools will hopefully be a bit more sympathetic. If you have to, start the child at the school where a place has been offered, but keep ringing the other schools about a place. Keep the child out of school will not get you a place any sooner.

Don’t refuse the place. No one knows how likely it will be that you get a place. Every case is different.

Echoing what @mugglewump says. It sounds like you have been doing all the applications through the council. Have you been to visit the schools?

When you're doing the application through the council it's all about ticking boxes and following processes but the individual schools have the ability to take an additional child into a full year at KS2. Most schools will be very sympathetic to your family circumstances (and if they are not they are probably not the school for you right now). I would see if it was possible to have a face-to-face meeting with someone at the school because it will be the most effective way to get them on your side.

Personally, I would emphasise how important it is for her to be in her local school so that she can begin to build up a new community and feel secure and settled. For that reason, I also wouldn't be starting at a new school if a place was offered and I didn't want to keep it (although I appreciate you may need her to be in school if you have to go to work).

Just reading back again and I see you were also looking for anecdotes. I had a child start school at a non-standard time and, although there was space in the year, I very strongly got the impression that they would have done everything possible to admit them even if there wasn't. This was after visiting and meeting with the person involved with student support. This school then went on to be very supportive through our time there even though it's the kind of place that Ofsted doesn't always heap with praise.

For another anecdote (after another move, Firces children)... Council said no spaces at school. School were able to confirm someone had just left, so there was a place that wasn't on the system and called the council themselves. She started the next day.

So schools can have a better idea of vacancies than the council but the council might know the waiting list situation

I agree go directly to your chosen school stand firm and plead your case. Good luck. Very sad you all must be drained with obstacles like this.

Thank you all for your help and advice and kind thoughts, I'm going to phone and email the school tommorow and see if anyone is there.

Its a very strange feeling having to come up with a whole new life for 2 little kids overnight (5 if you count mine who are older) and its been an insane 9 months for sure, but this is the last piece in the puzzle and I just need to get this last school place in place! and then everyone can move forwards with their new lives, hopefully.

Everyone is kind and sympathetic and wants to help, but they're all limited by the beaurecacy of the system they are in (parallel battles going on in the NHS). Everyone has known we need a school place in the town I live in since January and I have been in regular communication and documented everything, and yet here we are down to the wire the week before term starts still without a place. It really shouldn't be so difficult to move forward from a shock bereavement.

Just as a further note - heads will be working tomorrow, but it is very possible that admin / reception will be on term-time only contracts so no-one will answer the phone.

If the direct e-mail for the head is not on the website, replacing ‘admin’ with ‘head’ @ rest of e-mail address will almost certainly work.

Sounds like School 1 has rejected the place (if she’s now on waiting list) so presumably you can appeal there now?

I think that is probably the case though I only know that because I phoned up earlier this week, but yes, from what you are all saying I am going to try and speak to both the school and the council tommorow/Monday and indicate my intention to appeal. I did think they would officially let me know by email or on th eapplication portal but maybe they are waiting until they have something to offer, perhaps in the hope I won't appeal ...

What a sad situation. There are a few admissions specialists on here who may be kind enough to give advice.

@patriciaholm , @Lougle and @prh47bridge perhaps @admission. Others may be able to tag more.

@mysodapop others have given the same advice I would - contact the two schools directly and explain the situation. Don't decline an offered place (since it sounds like home educating isn't an option) but if it becomes necessary to accept a place at an unsuitable school ask about a delayed start to buy time.

I've been in your shoes with our (now formally adopted) middle three and it was such a tough time for everyone. I've never felt so uncertain or ill-equipped as a parent or step parent as I did trying to settle three grieving children into a new life, make parent decisions for children who still felt like someone else's, and support them through it all. Hang in there, and make sure you and your partner have support of your own. 💙

Thank you, all, really appreciate your input. It's such an incredible sense of responsibility and I feel like I am failing the youngest one currently. She is too young to undertsand why her sister has a new school to go to and she doesn't and is feeling really left out and upset that she isn't going to school next week but everyone else is - her older sister already had an 'on time' year 7 application in the system for this September and I eventually managed to get it transferred over here and because it was still 'on time' they immediately granted the exceptional social need criteria and gave her a secondary school place the next day - presumably this is much easier at bigger secondary schools and at a natural juncture like primary/secondary.